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Secure Pidgin - portable? Aciago - July 24, 2007 - 8:27am
I don't remember who was talking about this on this forum, so I decided to start a new topic... I found this http://www.silcnet.org/ that is supposed to be an encripted/secure pidgin... I don't know if it's totally GPL (at least pidgin is) and I don't know if it's portable or can be made portable... I'm just posting for information on interested people, since somebody in the past talked about this feature with pidgin. ( categories: )
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Pidgin Encrypt
If you check the beta forums where the Beta 1 of Pidgin 2.0.2 is being done, there's an installer for the Pidgin Encrypt plugin on there. That enables secure, encrypted IM. Haven't tried SILC so I don't know how its plugin works. OTR used to be the encryption method of choice for Gaim Portable, but the new release is un-portable, so we're recommending Pidgin Encryption now.
UPDATE: SILC is included in Pidgin itself, so no need to think about it as an add-on.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
OTR Portability
The new release of OTR is portable. Just drop the pidgin-otr.dll into the plugins dir. The OTR installer app needs pidgin to be installed to open, but it's just one file.
I wouldn't recommend Pidgin Encryption only because it only works with Pidgin. OTR works with many other clients.
?
OTR works with many other clients.
names? (please)
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I have no signature again... :'(
If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report
It's Coming
Yeah, it was reported in the testing thread. I'd thought it wasn't portable due to the installer with the extra files.
I'll be packaging both OTR and Pidgin Encryption so everybody can use whatever they'd like.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I thought they were portable
I thought they were portable before you UPX'd them. If both saved(keys) to .\purple\ by default, then what makes you think they were not as portable as the program running them?
And one more thing, about the storing of passwords, the last release of Gaim-Portable encrypted the passwords, this new release(Pidgin-Portable) doesn't do that. Your response? Maybe you'll upx this thread?
Ummm
Ok, for starters, I was clear about the installers installing extra files *OUTSIDE* of the Pidgin and .purple directories. Which would make them non-portable. The installers also didn't work with Pidgin Portable. Which is why I had to make some to make it easier for people.
And passwords have never been encrypted in Gaim.
Now stop being an ass.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I wasn't being an ass. And
I wasn't being an ass. And it isn't the installers that need be portable, just the plugin. I didn't say the installers were portable. I said PLUGINS. Now stop being an ass yourself. Its obvious the devs got to the portable before you did.
Without installers...
... it's quite difficult for average users to install said plugins.
Also, a warning, purposely disrupting multiple threads for your own reasons will result in your account being banned.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Ban Hammer?
Way to take the same stance Sony took on root-kits.
And the installers don't seem that difficult to THIS average user. OTR installs some additional software for anyone that wants to play with the plugin and their keys. And you kinda said it yourself, it doesn't go to the .purple or pidgin directories. But what I said still holds true, the plugins were portable before you upx'd them.
Installers
The plugins are distributed as installers that can't detect Pidgin Portable, they only work with Pidgin locally installed. And lots of users of the portable version don't have a locally installed version to pull it from. So, it makes FAR more sense to make simple packages of them that users can easily add into Pidgin Portable, right?
I said I *THOUGHT* OTR wasn't portable any longer due to it installing to multiple directories, but then realized I was wrong and said so. I never claimed that the plugins weren't compatible until UPX compressed (which is just plain dumb).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Never said it in this
Never said it in this thread(Though you did whip out potty mouth, tsk tsk). You took the classic bully stance though. And the plugins are distributed INSIDE installers, and they added easily enough for me. I never said you claimed to claim(ugh), but I was bringing light to your habit to UPX everything(but after you did UPX them you did claim they were portable).
Must be nice to fight over the last word.
Second Warning
Purposely egging people on and trying to get a rise out of them is not permitted in these forums. If you'd like to insult, antagonize, etc, you're welcome to do it elsewhere.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
his habit to UPX everything
his habit to UPX everything is to save space. some people have limited space on their portable devices. UPX does not make them portable, it makes them smaller, so they are more portable, or rather, more widely usable. You are correct that the plugins are distributed inside the installers. John simply made another package that he felt would make installation easier for ALL USERS. Congrats on the installers being easy enough for YOU, but you aren't ALL USERS. How did UPX even get brought into this? John didnt mention it at all, all he said before you mentioned UPX was that he originally thought that it would not be portable, and that he'd be packaging them in the next release.
_________________________
I don't believe in signatures
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
Speed, too
It isn't just space. UPXing files helps apps launch faster, too. The limiting factor when running portable apps is often the speed of the drive. Write speed is the most limiting (with apps that write lots of little bits like Firefox), but read speed can slow things down, too. Especially if you happen to wind up stuck at a machine with only USB 1.1 ports. UPXed EXEs decompress exceedingly fast so we don't wind up with overhead in actual use. What they do do is allow the EXE or DLL to be loaded from the portable device into RAM much faster. Which results in better performance.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Also I wasn't disrupting
Also I wasn't disrupting multiple threads. What I was doing was posting relevant information with a link to the official page's how to make pidgin run from a USB drive. But I guess here is where you call me an ass again. Riiiiiiight?
http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/Using%20Pidgin#RunningWindowsPidginFroma...
And this has been covered
The 'official' way to make it portable by the Pidgin devs has been covered numerous times in the forums here. These are the same directions they gave for Gaim. And they're still a bit convoluted and don't provide the full functionality of Pidgin Portable (which updates your settings files as you move between drives). Plus, it's too difficult for non-geeks to do (which is why Gaim/Pidgin Portable has 2 million downloads).
I've been in contact with the devs directly and determined that the official portable release isn't quite full featured enough to be able to be used in the PortableApps.com Format directly, since it can't redirect the GTK to elsewhere and, before the current release, couldn't put its data in the right place for the PortableApps.com Platform so that it can get automatically backed up. The ultimate goal is to make it so 'Pidgin Portable' is just the official release repackaged into PortableApps.com Format for easy installation and integration with the menu and other apps. But it will require a few more changes.
And posting a relevant link within a discussion is fine. Multiple postings to multiple threads (which you did) just to try and make a point is not.
And yes, I stand by my original assessment. You're purposely acting a certain way to try and tick people off and get a rise out of them, which is simply uncalled for in general and against the forum rules here. So, you can either knock it off or leave.
You're dealing with volunteers who freely work to give you a free product. This is the reason that the Pidgin developers don't maintain any outside contact with the users (they don't read or post in any of the public forums and haven't in years)... they got sick of dealing with asses.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I never said I was all
I never said I was all users, but the installer is easy enough, it doesn't even have to be in English and its still easy. Pffft. But you seem to have little to no faith in your user base, which is probably why I'm not the first to "annoy" you. I made one post and you called me an ass. ONE POST. The "disruptions" you claim I cause in other threads came after that. Should a moderator/admin have a better ability to maintain himself than everyone else? I hadn't been here for five minutes and you called me an ass, either I'm an ass(I have my doubts John) or you should really step back and take a look at yourself.
Oh one more thing before the hammer, runs portable from a USB device on a maching without GTK installed on them. Tested on three machines (one with, two without). Seems to be redirected just fine. Maybe you should look at that link once more. Or not. Whatever, I'm done trying to help a hopeless case with an ego complex and a short fuse.
As Explained
As already clearly explained, the installer for at least one of them DOESN'T work with Pidgin Portable. And the other, it's not as simple as it should be.
Also, at this point, it's quite clear that you enjoy hassling people for the sake of it. So, it would appear that my original assessment was quite accurate.
And, as mentioned, the 'official' method of making it portable works fine, but it does NOT work in PortableApps.com Format which requires a specific file and directory layout so that it can work with the menu and the integrated backup utility as well as additional upcoming features. It also doesn't allow you to share GTK with GIMP Portable.
Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's good. A good portable app should not require multiple steps to make portable. It also should NOT require you to install something locally since many users of portable apps don't have this ability (it requires admin rights). It should just work. And users have been voting with their downloads.
Now, if you genuinely want to be banned, I will do so. Otherwise, why not check the attitude and consider becoming a productive member of the community.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Sigh
Since I assumed my last post stated I could care less. Let me make it clear. After this post, wether you ban me or not. I'm gone. Because I don't have the attitude, you have the short fuse. I'm done trying to defend myself to a bully like you. I said that already. So the next time someone calls you an after after you called them one first, just remember I wasn't the first. Your attitude is the obvious tell-all of that.
As requested
As requested, I have banned your account. You've now joined a choice few banned accounts. 3 total, actually (not counting spammers). 1 was banned for constantly swearing at developers. The other was banned for purposely trolling and starting flame threads. Now, you've become number 3. Out of 35,000 registered accounts.
Since you're so familiar with the 'ban hammer' (a term I'd never encountered before now) this probably isn't your first experience with being banned... I'd guess you've been banned from several other forums and each time have blamed the moderators for being overbearing and over reactive.
Moderators use bans as a last resort for individuals who have no interest in being a part of a community other than disrupting said community. I'd highly suggest you take a long look in the mirror and consider your own attitude. You're far more likely to accomplish what you want by working with others online and giving people the benefit of the doubt than by making snarky, trolling comments and purposely trying to get a rise out of people... especially when said people are creating high quality free products for you... unpaid... in their spare time.
I doubt that you'll take any of this seriously, though... so I'll just wish you well and send you on your way.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Wowww
35,000 is a lot.
But there must be tons of people who have been here one time and no more.
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.” - Richard P. Feynman
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
There are
The 35,000 count doesn't count registered accounts that were never verfied (they all signed up, got the email, clicked to confirm and came back here). There are thousands of accounts that never verified. I haven't calculated out the active accounts yet.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
2 cents
From someone totally uninvolved i'd like to speak up for skata.
I think you did react rashly. I think you were right technically, but then you kept mixing in replies to a totally separate argument about what amounts to censorship, and when he would reply to your reply you'd call him disruptive when you were doing the exact same thing.
And you did call him names.
You completely relied on your authority here to carry your point rather than technical merit alone. With glee in fact I might add, by adding a nice multi paragraph response after the ban.
Important lesson to everyone else: Having the last word does not automatically make your right.
I've been on forums and IRC for over a decade now and I can say with certainty, that one doesn't have to actually ban people to be a digital tyrant, just like a guy with a gun doesn't have to shoot anyone to terrorize a room full of people.
Now, I just got here, I don't know how you are with other people, but with 'skata' you were totally in "because I said so" mode, which is fine it's your board, but don't hide behind forum rules.
You are the forum.
I only registered to say this, so if you wanna reply to this reply and it's in anyway an argument, fully expect me to defend my position, reply and quite possibly become the next member on your short ban list.
P.S. Hi Mom! *waves at camera*
P.P.S. Does this mean OTR is built into the new pidgin? (Or will be?)
A Response
Welcome to PortableApps.com, Brandon
I can't say I'm a fan of dredging up old, annoying topics, but since you're new, here's a quick response...
First off, reviving a months-old contentious discussion for your own purposes (whatever they are) isn't the best way to introduce yourself to a new community. As a decade-long user of IRC and forums, you should know better
Secondly, you weren't involved in the discussion at the time and weren't witness to the multiple duplicate topics that skata created on these forums to attempt to 'make his point': posting annoying diatribes in multiple posts in multiple forums just to try and suck other people into his world (these have all since been deleted from this site). Nor were you witness to him assuming multiple identities on this forum as well as other online forums and making blogs posts simply to call names and otherwise continue to be an ass. (Sadly, I don't know if I still have the IP address list from this incident, so I don't know if you're skata yet again trying to beat a dead horse... there's probably at least some chance of it as, afterall, who else would care enough to revive this months later? But, hell, even if you are skata, you're welcome to stay as long as you're willing to be a part of the community.)
Third, when someone is being an ass (the name I called him), I'll call them out on it. The above-mentioned behaviors make someone an ass in my book. Granted, I should probably hold back on calling people out on it before they've thoroughly proved it... or maybe not at all... but what's done is done here. If I recall correctly, it was a particularly bad day forum-wise and sh*t does happen.
Fourth, yes, I did exactly what I said I was going to do and packaged both OTR and Pidgin-Encryption for dead-easy use with Pidgin Portable using portable installers that automatically work with Pidgin Portable and don't require admin rights... the main limitations with their standard installers.
(edited) Oh, and one other thing... I'm not bundling OTR or Pidgin Ecnryption by default because they aren't with Pidgin itself and it makes releases easier (I - and users - won't have to update all of Pidgin Portable just because a new release of OTR or P.E. is made).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Off-The-Record
Well, if you'd like me to hold your hand for you, I'll lead you to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging
The following clients have native Off-the-Record Messaging support. That includes, that they make OTR usable for all instant messaing protocols which were implemented (e.g. OSCAR, Jabber, MSN, YIM/YMSG etc.).
* Adium (Mac OS X) has native support
* Pidgin (Cross-platform), with an official plugin available from the OTR homepage [2]
* Kopete (Unix-like) with a third-party plugin [3]
* mICQ (Unix-like) natively since 0.5.4
* Miranda IM (Microsoft Windows), with a third-party plugin [4]
* Trillian (Microsoft Windows) with a third-party plugin [5]
Thanks.-
and glad to know that Miranda support it...
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I have no signature again... :'(
If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report
Salt
I’m not sure if it was intentional but that came off as extremely patronizing.
"reviving a months-old contentious discussion for your own purposes (whatever they are) isn't the best way to introduce yourself to a new community."
Not a student of logic or philosophy?
First, how can any person not act in accordance with their own purposes? Even charity and altruism are willful acts and therefore serve limited selfish aims.
Second, "best" (and "better") are subjective. You assume you know what I want, on what basis?
Third, the conversation was left alone for so long partly because you forcibly removed the only voice of contention. That does not mean the topic is dead. Censorship is an important philosophical context for me. And the forum is a widespread medium in which it can flourish. Sure this is just a technical support forum, but it’s also a sociological expression. That's the primary reason I’m here.
"you weren't involved in the discussion at the time and weren't witness to the multiple duplicate topics that skata created on these forums to attempt to 'make his point'"
Assuming in your favor, they have been taken into consideration. However, to avoid endless he said she said third person madness. I will defend my own points from here on out, skata was just my foot in the door. I can tell you’ll provide a wealth of response-worthy material.
Second, "annoying diatribes" is your characterization. It's hardly objective. I could just as easily state that perhaps they were annoying to you merely because they were critical of you. But would that be subjective?
I suggest we try to keep this as objective as possible.
"Nor were you witness to him assuming multiple identities..."
I'll grant that thanks to isp recycling ips and things like tor it really opens the door for multiple personas and ban evasion. However, the transparent nature of a forum, and the semi permanent nature of the data in question once cached contributes strongly to people previously uninvolved leaping right in should the inclination be there. (like me for example)
"so I don't know if you're skata"
Skata and I do seem to share a distaste for abuse of power (however meager) and a total disregard for wrist slap consequences, but little else. And I don't respond well to scolding or condescension as you’ll discover. (such as "knowing better") I response far better to objectivity and rationality. Most everything else trigger my adversarial nature.
Patronize me at your peril. It effects me not one whit if you appear petty. I will speak on whatever topic I wish in whatever manner I wish as I'm sure will you. I won't tell you what to say and what not to say. I suggest we both just say what we think we can demonstrate, and leave arguing over favorite color and the like to others.
"But, hell, even if you are skata, you're welcome to stay as long as you're willing to be a part of the community."
While I assume that was meant to sound magnanimous you should know it comes off as quite the opposite because it implies that you banned him for emotional reasons which have since faded in time. I assume you didn't intend to provide supporting evidence of his assertion about your impulsive and or reactionary nature.
“Third, when someone is being an ass (the name I called him), I'll call them out on it.”
Hmmm, so if I feel (since proof is not possible with such a subjective term) you’ve earned some sort of derogatory term, I have carte blanche to bandy it about? Pardon my skepticism.
Sh*t does happen…
My primary point in all this is that we all should try to be accepting of things we don’t want to hear so long as those speaking don't place themselves above a demand for proof.
“Fourth, yes, I did exactly what I said I was going to do and packaged both OTR and Pidgin-Encryption”
Excellent! That is my second reason for being here, can you please link me to a tutorial page or something? I would like to implement OTR for portable.
Here in fact is where I take your side. Assumption of user knowledge is a fool’s errand, if things can be made easier, they should be, period.
“(edited) Oh, and one other thing... I'm not bundling OTR or Pidgin Encryption by default because they aren't with Pidgin itself and it makes releases easier (I - and users - won't have to update all of Pidgin Portable just because a new release of OTR or P.E. is made).”
That’s very reasonable. Can you point me to the download location please? Searching for OTR only brought me back here.
In conclusion, you seem like a reasonable guy when you aren't in a mood, so I look forward to continuing this debate and being banned forthwith *wink*
Hmmm. Looks like they are
Hmmm. Looks like they are cleverly hidden on the Pidgin Portable page, down a ways.
Might be good for John or someone to make them a bit more obvious, so people using search don't end up back here.
Here's a suggestion: go to that page, click on the "learn more" links with the two applications, download the two plugins, install them (or one of them) with the Portable Apps Menu's "Install a new app" function (under Options) -- I assume that will work -- and see if the resulting install (along with Pidgin) doesn't result in a usable application. If you are still having trouble, start a new topic under Pidgin Portable support and say how far you got and where things got opaque. Or ask for some volunteers of people to practice with you. (I'd be willing.) Or whatever might be helpful.
MC
.
While I assume that was meant to sound magnanimous you should know it comes off as quite the opposite because it implies that you banned him for emotional reasons which have since faded in time. I assume you didn't intend to provide supporting evidence of his assertion about your impulsive and or reactionary nature.
What John meant was, if the above poster was skata and he was back, he's absolutely welcome, as long as he doesn't act like an ass again.
Anyway, I'd like to take the opportunity to welcome you back to the forums. We hope you have a lovely stay and don't get banned
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
heheh thank you Ryan. I see
heheh thank you Ryan.
I see the 3.1 otr link, but I thought there was a portable specific version or something...
Or have I misinterpreted?
Found it.
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/portableapps/Pidgin-Encryption_Portable...
Excellent!