Howdy all, I just wanted to inform the community of the changes that have occurred in the PortableApps.com IRC support channel, #portableapps on irc.freenode.net.
As discussed previously by Ryan, there are 3 main 'positions' we've set up; Operators, Gurus, and DeMos.
Operators have full channel access, and have the most 'authority' in the channel.
Gurus are members who hang in the channel often are and typically helpful in providing support to users as well as managing the channel.
DeMos are developers and moderators. These members are automatically voiced on entry to the channel. These members are to lead as an example and do there best at providing support and managing the channel as well.
The past operators consisted of John, Ryan, Kevin, and I. We have just added three new operators, Gizmokid2005, Chris Morgan, and Oliver. These users were selected as they are generally around quite often, they fill in gaps of times in the channel where an operator is not typically around, they are helpful and supportive in the channel and in out community, and they can handle IRC and are dedicated to the position.
Various new developers have been given voice in the past few days, which changes our plans for Gurus. Currently, alpha1beta (alpha1) is the only non-developer who has voice, and therefore is a 'guru'. powerjuce and (hopefully) Zach Thibeau will also be acting as gurus. There were various other members who we though would fit the position almost perfectly, but unfortunately they are not on IRC as much as we'd like.
As for developers, our current developers consist of David, Jacob, Kevin, Marko, Nathan, Oliver, me, powerjuce, Ryan, Shawn, Simeon, Steve, Travis, Zach Thibeau, and Zach Hudock. There are 4 (I believe) developers who currently do not have voice as they are not around to frequently. If you would like voice (you know who you are), please do contact me and we can get that worked out. The operators consist of Marko, me, Ryan, Steve, and Tim. All of these users also have most administrative options like the operators. All of use (with the exception of Marko) are typically around quite frequently and will play more of an operator role when needed if we do not fufill the posision already.
Comments Needed: Developers, Gururs, and Moderators currently have +V set on them so they are given the voice flag upon entry to the channel, distinguishing them against the other users. We were thinking operators should be given +O (op upon entry) to distinguish them as well. This is not to belittle the other users in the channel, but only to distinguish them as someone who is likely to be around, able to provide support, administration, etc. Comments?
Thanks, let me know what you think about this. If you think you'd be a suitable Guru, please contact me privately, or leave a comment here and I'll contact you. Operators, however are final and no new ones are needed at the moment.
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what is the difference between an Operator and a DeMo with extra operator rights?
Thanks for putting me up as op. Now, my opinion on +O for ops is that I think it's a good idea, to provide the distinction. No, I don't just want to show off :P. But I do think that these people we've now got as ops are more likely to be the ones that help more often. And yes, I am one of that group. That's just the way it is...
Would that Freenode had halfop... then you could have op gets op, DeMo gets halfop, guru gets voice... ah well. Time to bully Freenode
I am a Christian and a developer and moderator here.
“A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15:1
That's how I designed the system originally, but then I discovered that Freenode didn't have half-op. I'll go and discuss it with them now.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
I am going to agree with Chris on this as well. Again, not because I'm in the group, but I do believe that Ops should have a +O flag set, just so the distinction is made. Not to belittle, or intimidate, but to distinguish.
I thought I would be more under Demos more than Guru personally :/ but your the op so really it's your decision though
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
you ought to be, I guess they are just trying to fill the groups, which seems rather unfair.
He is a developers, obviously. However, not every developer that hangs in the channel is constantly ready to give help. Zach was on the list for Gurus, and then he became an official developer. Not that a guru is in a lower 'caste' if you will, it's just being in that group is to give him the 'responsibility' of being someone who's there to help out in terms of support as well as the channel. That is particularly the role of a developer.
I was talking with Chris in IRC this morning and we thought it was a bit odd to have the Moderators in the DeMo group as we have most of the operator rights anyway, surely we would be better with three groups:
Operators: The most trusted users and moderators (after all we were chosen to be moderators as we were trusted users), these have op rights
Developers: The developers on the site, these have voice rights
Gurus: Trusted users who arent devs, these also have voice
Otherwise the DeMo group is split, most of them have voice, but myself, Tim and Marko have extra privs that don't quite fit into any of the groups, to me it would make more sense to shuffle the three of us up, but then maybe I would say that! As for the current set of ops filling all of the time gaps I think thatis quite hopeful, certainly I am on at times when none of them are about (or Gizmo is away), and surely the redundancy wouldnt hurt, it would also tighten up the groups as they would all have obvious rights.
Operators are not just based on trust, but also on proficiency with IRC. However, we could change this if you want.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
just seemed odd to me that we have a group that that doesn't have equal rights (DeMos) *shrugs* I'll leave it up to everyone else, it doesn't really matter to me either way.
It did to me as well. I spoke to Ryan before I made this post, but we weren't sure what to do.
so I am not going mad, as there are three of us I vote for moving us up, if there are ever more mods though perhaps the issue would need to be looked ata again.
I don't think that having an automatic +O is a good idea. Personally, I tend to make typos, so when I'm demonstrating an IRC command, and I'm not careful to put the appropriate space before the command, I can really screw things up. That's really my only comment on this.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
Tim Clark has been talking about +O on entry. I agree with you here Kevin, I don't think that it would be a good idea. I mean, why change what we are used to? ChanServ has left and now it feels so weird.
Im so used to typing TimClark and now seeing his name with a space doesn't seem right.
Na na na, come on!
TimClark
was talking about it in the sense that it was being discussed, he has not taken an official position on it yet.
[edit:] Though I do see some value in it
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
siento mi amigo.
(Sorry my friend)
Na na na, come on!
I agree. I mean, my preference would be to use opping as a way to show the person, look, you've been messing around. You need to stop because very soon I will kick you.
And, yeah, if we were typing a command, it would mess it up. Being OPped, the command would carry more weight then just voiced.
Perhaps we could leave that choice to the op?
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
Ryan has convinced me that staying opped is a good idea, and I now like the idea. I mean, what kind of damage can you do? Why would you be typing something that could do some sort of harm anyway unless you were going to do it on purpose?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
We've now enabled +O for all ops. I've also synched all the permissions for #portableapps over to #portableapps-dev.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."