Right, so I've been using PortableApps for a year or two now, and while it's great on my flash drive at work, I'm wondering if there aren't greater aspirations and uses for the platform. Specifically, portability from Windows installation to installation on the same computer.
I'm what you call a reformat nut. Sometimes I use a more derogatory five-letter word in place of nut, but I'm assuming we're being relatively classy here. Anyway, I have a problem, and rather than spending hours or days tracking it down, I just reformat my hard drive and reinstall Windows. Hey, it works every time. And right now, something's slowing my computer to a near-crawl and I don't know what. Rather than track it down and get some performance back, I'm just gonna start over. As you guys know (hence at least part of the reason for portability, I would think) installing update after update can degrade the registry, or at least that's what I've been told.
So here's what I'm thinking. Install PortableApps.com's menu (or rather one of the forks, but never mind that) and run apps portably. This way, next time I reformat, my apps will still be ready and waiting. PortableApps' Menu will start with Windows, and there'll be an icon on the desktop for it, and possibly to some of the apps as well.
Obviously this won't work for everything. I'll still have to install DirectX and all the drivers, antivirus, Ad-Aware, and programs that really do need to be installed, like Daemon Tools. But I mean, Firefox, OpenOffice, Pidgin, and many more can be ran portably, so why not? Right? They update cleaner and I can retain them from install to install.
Couple concerns:
1. I really would like a multi-user Firefox. I posted that fix with swapping out the profile folders, and while that's cute on the go, when she comes home from work, she doesn't want to mess with all that, she just wants to get online. So do I need to move Firefox, on my planner, from the PortableApps column to the Installed column? What specifically prevents multiple users in Portable Firefox, and can I change it back?
2. I'd like a Registry script that registers extensions to portable apps, like archives to 7-zip, music to Winamp, video to VLC, etc. How hard is that to make? I know how to do it the long way in Explorer (Tools>Folder Options>File Types) but it seems like if the drive letter does not change and the paths stay the same, I ought to be able to keep all the desktop shortcuts in a folder and deploy them with one slick copy operation and then "install/register" all the Portable Apps at least as far as their file types go. As opposed to doing it the long way, the goal being to be up and running with as many apps in the shortest time possible.
3. Are portable apps, when used locally from a hard drive, really just as good as their installed brethren? That they are is generally my experience, but that's working on a flash drive at work and working with what little I got.
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I've been doing something like this for a while using an external hard drive on my XP desktop machine, and when I got my Vista64 laptop, I wanted to keep the thing as clean as possible. Since the laptop was portable in itself, I didn't see the need to keep using the portable hard drive.
So yeah, I basically ran Windows updates/service packs and then the standard "platform" stuff.
After that, I just made a directory called PortableApps and stuck everything portable in there. I didn't bother messing with a registry script or editor to register extensions because that can be done manually with a right-click on a file. Might take a little bit of time, and time consuming to re-do later if necessary, but it IS a pretty simple solution.
Next, I didn't use the PortableApps Menu because the machine is mine and I don't have to worry about some of the portability concerns that come from moving a USB stick from machine to machine. Right-click and "send to desktop" creates an icon on the desktop.
IANAP (I am not a programmer) but from my understanding, the PortableApps wrapper serves a few functions:
There's probably more stuff, but I haven't noticed any pitfalls from running the wrapper on my own internal or external hard drives. Maybe these background tasks slow the startup/shutdown of a program slightly, but I can't tell.
The multiple profiles in Firefox is something that is missing from the portable version. From what I understand, efforts to promote anonymous browsing will promote multiple profiles in FirefoxPortable. Do your profile directory renaming or whatever until then, or just use an installed version of Firefox and not bother with the portable since portability isn't an issue for you.
Jim
neutron1132 (at) usa (dot) com
3. Are portable apps, when used locally from a hard drive, really just as good as their installed brethren?
Portable apps are designed to run from a removable single point source. Window apps are designed to run fast and efficiently from a Windows hard drive. If you take a Windows app that has been limited to run from a removable drive it will not be as efficient, by design. Whether the inefficiencies will be noticable depends on the app and the speed of the machine.
As for reinstalling Windows and all it's necessary apps and etc repeatedly a faster and easier approach is to create a clean complete updated system then do an image backup. Have a problem, restore the image. Run a few updates, like AV and etc and you're up and running again.
There are numerous apps for imaging, some free, some inexpensive. The main thing to look for is one that has the capability to run from a separate source, like a CD, USB or separate partition, so you can restore the system drive.
Ed
No, some portable apps were tweaked to run great from a hdd and USB. I'd actually say that great majority doesn't have anything that makes them run notably worse on a HDD then they would if they were local, but I don't use much software from here.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
I forgot to say that depending on your program selections, you'll end up with multiple copies of things spread across different directories. Stuff like 7Za, LAME or UPX.
That's the advantage of Windows - it keeps the commonly used stuff in one place and everybody can use it. That's a disadvantage if you are interested in portability since you want everything that a particular program needs all put into the same place as the program.
So, I just don't get worried about losing a little bit of space on the hard drive.
Jim
neutron1132 (at) usa (dot) com
You can keep them together portably as well.
And it's not only hdd space but also memory and startup times.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
I've done this before with Acronis True Image. ATI 7 was a good program, but ATI 8 was buggy as hell and that was around the time I quit using it.
My only problem with that solution, as a concept, is that I like to stay on top of application updates, and every time I restore the image, having to update every program on the system is just as bad as having to install every app fresh, with very little exception.
A compromise would be to install Windows, install apps that *don't* get updated, and make the image from there. For example, Winamp - I favor version 2.91 to anything later. 2.95 added something I didn't like, I hated Winamp 3, and Winamp 5 isn't much better, IMHO. It all went to hell when they added video support and IMHO it's just gone downhill from there. Another example WAS EditPad Lite - I don't like the 6.x series, so I stick with 5.4.6, but I'm switching to Notepad++. Also MS Office XP/2002, but I'm going to convert to OpenOffice and XnView (the latter to replace MS Photo Editor). But then the system files get regular updates and I like to establish my base (mobo/chipset drivers, graphics card drivers, DirectX, etc.) before installing apps.
The only shortcut I can see would be to install Windows and Winamp and use a good imaging tool, but that still leaves me installing a lot of apps, so the Portable Apps are a good solution.
Not an issue, since I've got an 80GB hard drive; space isn't an issue. If I run my apps off an external hard drive, all the C drive gets used for is Windows and anything I need to install.
I keep all my music, video, pictures, and documents on an internal 750GB SATA drive, and I have another internal hard drive (300GB IDE) that holds misc. stuff and gets used for the swap file. This is in addition to the 300GB external drive I intend to use for the apps and whatnot. (I know it's not too impressive with terabyte and 2TB drives out now, but the enormity of it still floors me sometimes. My first Microsoft (MS-DOS 5) computer had a 20MB (twenty megabyte) hard drive.)
A Seagate 225? I paired mine with an RLL controller and pushed it all the way to 30 megs! Had to be careful of the interleave, though.
That particular machine started with 640k memory and I purchased the little memory chips with the little feet to run the memory all the way to 1024 - a whole meg. And since DOS couldn't really use anything past 640k, the extra was used as a RAM drive.
Jim
neutron1132 (at) usa (dot) com
I wasn't that technical back then. I got two IBM P/S 2 PCs (that's what they were called) from school when they upgraded their machines. Built in monitor, it looked somewhat like a Mac Plus, but bigger, if memory serves. The screen was shot on one and the mobo didn't work on the other. I cracked open the cases, and the mobo was mounted on this neat slider, so it was real easy to swap them. Afterwards, I had one working* computer, but the other was completely junk, so I tossed it. (*Sometimes the power switch wouldn't work. I never thought to check the linkage, I just assumed it was buggy.)
And that was about the extent of my hardware adventures. Mine had 640K of memory as well, though, and I have no idea what brand the hard drive was. This thing couldn't even run NetHack, though I had downloaded the MS-DOS version (from a Pentium 166 running Windows 95 at school). Most of what I did was download websites (the HTML pages) and study them, and work the code into my own website, completely authored on the IBM but adjusted on the Pentiums. Other than that, I wrote a novel, but lost the file. It was just a first draft, but it was about 120 pages, or would have been, according to Word, on 8.5x11 paper with 1" margins and 12 point text. I just needed to pad it with details and a couple side plots as it was all action and dialog. I won't lie, though, it was a lot like Lord of the Rings.
Back then the real IBMs were a "concept" and things were non-standard as a result. One idea was that drives and components slid in and out without using tools. A poor spot in the design was the power switch. It was on the front of the machine with a long arm that ran all the way to the back of the machine and actually flipped the switch back there.
The P/S 2 machines died because they were non-standard.
Anyway, we're getting pretty far off-topic, so I apologize to anybody who is offended.
Jim
neutron1132 (at) usa (dot) com
My only problem with that solution, as a concept, is that I like to stay on top of application updates, and every time I restore the image, having to update every program on the system is just as bad as having to install every app fresh, with very little exception.
It's quicker to install 2 or 3 months worth of updates than 2 or 3 years worth, which has to be close to what you're doing with fresh installs of everything. Plus finding all the CDs and product keys. But I could be wrong maybe you only run Windows and Office so you don't have that many apps to install and update.
To minimize the number of updates after a restore refresh the backup image every few months or after any major change to your system.
Anyways, that what I do. The last time I did a fresh install it took me weeks to get everything reinstalled and back to what I had.
Ed
But slightly differently.
I don't create OS image. I just copy everything from the previous installation and have it up to date.
Multiple Firefox profiles? Just have 2 Firefox copies.
Associations? Use a file manager that has portable ones. Xenon, XYPlorer, soon Total Commander.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
This will solve your problem with just a little setup work.
I use http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page
On the CD, use gparted to create a new partition, two of them actually. One to store your apps (few GB) and a small one (5GB to store a restore-able image of your OS)
Install your OS, all updates, and needed installed files AV, Winamp, anti-malware, etc.
Use partimage (on the CD) to create a restore-able image of that partition (C:) and save it to the small 5GB partition.
You can always restore to that very point, and very quickly. Then just update from there, such as if a new OS Service pack comes out, Windows Update etc. Another good point, is that you will never have an OS running without AV or anti-malware running. If you restore the OS it will all be there running. It will need a definition update, but it will still be running
Install all your portables on the second larger partition, call it (D:) as an example.
You can then restore your OS on C: and never worry about touching your portables on the D: partition. They will remain and function perfectly.
When all done, I like to go back into gparted and make the restore partition 'hidden' so it will not display in windows explorer.
a slightly outdated but useful tutorial is here http://lifehacker.com/software/geek-to-live/partition-and-image-your-har...
So I was talking to a former software tester at Symantec. I told him about my recent fascination with Portable Apps, and he seemed very interested. He then declared that this was a good time to buy stock in Symantec. He went on to describe the nightmares he foresaw for sys admins and computer lab techs at shared computing facilities around the world. The opportunities to introduce malware into the network were monstrous (just look at the portable Warez posting on this forum fas a fer-instance. Not everybody is as altruistic as John Haller-- alas!).
It sort of made me wonder about good old RevRDist. Back in the mid 1990's labs around the University of Utah were using this program, and it worked great. Every time one of the macs was rebooted somewhere in the computer lab, the entire hard disk was wiped clean, and the OS was reinstalled from an image on the central server.
Patrons could muck around with the system all they wanted. Change the desktop background, install your favorite applications, delete extensions, change the date and time, create new icons, whatever. No worries, the system would just be reinstalled after you were done anyway.
Why nobody has continued to develop programs like this escapes me.
A few years later, I was called upon to monitor computer labs at a local Kinko's and a local high school as well. Now I'm also working at a genealogy library.
In all cases, we've had to resort to installing everything from scratch, creating a drive image for each individual computer (aarrgh!), and then manually reinstalling from the image whenever we feel it's necessary.
I liked it better when this was all automatic, and you didn't have to worry about serial numbers for the OS on each individual machine.
>>- DGP ->
My school (Jagiellonian University, Cracow) uses a similar system. Except that it refreshes only important stuff (i.e. leaves not-system folders changed) and works at logoff. Students have private network drives to keep files on. One can run configuration scripts at each logon and have a fully customized system.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
I just use two back up DVDs: One for my OS/MS Office, the other for all the goodies that I install immediately there after. I get my pc running in less than 90 minutes, from wiping drive, to reinstalling, to completely installing all my image programs, video editors, sound programs, archivers, genealogy programs, etc...
I agree, making my software life portable would be awesome, and I would love to learn to make a few pieces of critical software portable so I would stop loosing data...