Alright, so we have to start dealing with Windows 7 which seems pretty buggy in terms of portable apps. Here are the known issues:
Installer Incomplete (Windows 7 Bug) - Windows 7 Build 7057, 7068 & 7077 (the latest leaked builds) errors on all launchers and PortableApps.com Installers as well as StartPortableApps.exe and says that the installer did not complete correctly (as seen here). This also affects normal installers (non-portable installers) that add plugins to locally-installed software, update locally installed software, self-extractors (including all NSIS self extractors) and other installers that don't update the add/remove programs list and is a major bug in Windows 7. Having the installer set not to need admin rights does not help the issue (as it did in a similar issue in Windows Vista). This bug does not occur in the Windows 7 Beta build (Build 7000).
Pin To Taskbar - This doesn't work right with portable apps (and other apps that use more than one EXE) as Windows 7 doesn't understand apps that have one EXE call another. There is no workaround.
Hotkey Redefined (Minor) - The WIN+P hotkey we were using has been taken by Microsoft in Windows 7. As most combos are taken, we may be going with WIN-ALT-SPACE as it is an unlikely combo and easy to use physically. There's another topic in the forum where we are discussing this.
We're dealing with a pre-release operating system that is in flux. Of course, no one should be using it as their primary OS since there have been dataloss bugs and other issues in previous Windows 7 builds... so anyone currently using it as their primary OS should be expecting compatibility bugs like above and will have to wait them out. But as Windows 7 may drop later this year, I'd like to ensure that we're ready for it before it even goes gold.
Visit the Community page
Join our forums
Subscribe to our email newsletter
Subscribe with RSS
Follow us on Facebook
Follow us on LinkedIn
Follow us on Twitter
Follow us on Mastodon
Follow us on BlueSky
Vista introduced heuristic installer detection. It seems that W7 took it further and now it works too well. Yes, somebody should report it, I wonder whether they'll fix it, you're the only group of people that I know to use NSIS for anything but installers. Possibly hiding NSIS with UPX or so would help too.
MS reserved all Win+* hotkeys for itself, so that's only your fault.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
Vista only used the heuristic detection when an installer requested admin rights, which installers do. Windows 7 appears to be doing something else and being pretty dumb about it. The big issue is that it thinks the app installers fail when they in fact succeed... which is a pretty major bug on Windows 7's part in its attempt to be 'helpful'.
It looks like this will affect ALL installers that don't add an entry to the Add/Remove programs list. So local plugin installers, local app updaters that update an app without touching Add/Remove (since nothing changed), etc. So, yeah, big Windows 7 bug.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
1. How much effort would it be to add a configuration file or an option for changing the hotkey? (I'd like to make the hotkey Win (the Windows key only) and replace the normal Start menu :-)).
2. If Windows 7 reserves Win+* hotkeys, that really sucks. >-( Where can I moan? O yeah, it's M$ - I can't. >-(.
I hope this can be addressed, I would hate it if someone HAD to install the platform in order to install or use just FireFoxPortable or ThunderbirdPortable
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
I did some more testing and it is erroring on everything now: Add-On installers out there for NSIS, self-exctracting installers, etc. So it does seem to be a genuine (and bad) bug. I'm setting up my Beta 1 build again to see if it affects that older build as well.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I can confirm that this doesn't affect Beta 1 (technically it's just "Beta" because MS says there won't be a second beta). I've been using Win7 as my primary OS since the beta came out and have run many NSIS installers, portable, add-on or otherwise, and have had no issues so far. And that's across three different machines (a laptop, a desktop and a netbook).
Just be sure you're doing backups. The initial release had a dataloss bug that would mess with your MP3s. And I'd avoid the leaked builds at it is apparent that they're definitely not ready to use as your daily OS.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Yeah, I'm aware of that bug and I've never encountered it. Didn't they release the hotfix for it on Windows Update? I make it a point to always run Windows Update once after installing Windows, and then leave automatic updating on.
And I never use leaked builds. The fact that they weren't released to the public should be enough of a clue to people that they're not ready for public use, but I guess nobody thinks of that...
but it still provides an insight to what is coming, ok, it's not final but, what if it's not a bug, what if it's a "new feature" or making new progress in how program work or some BS like that, It's M$ they would do it, without a second thought, So it's a good thing to at least take a look at the problem, and find a solution, even if we won't need in, when win7 is final. If nothing else, it helps us better develop our installers to fit a wider range of system.
Well It got leaked somehow...I seriously think M$ leak them, to find bugs, and to get the hype up. They need to do anything they can to avoid the V word with all costs, and getting windows 7's name out there, does just that.
Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.
That's exactly what they did with the New Xbox Experience, a major update to the Xbox's operating system, in November last year. It didn't work right (mostly with getting online) for about 2 weeks.
Microsoft isn't stupid... they know some techies will do just about anything to use the latest and greatest stuff. I know they're saving a bit of money by outsourcing some of W7's beta testing to BitTorrent. I'd be doing it, too, if I liked where Windows headed after XP. Since I don't... well... Linux looks better all the time.
NathanJ79 "Microsoft isn't stupid." I should smack you for that. Blasphemy!
But not for the same reasons. M$ needs to get windows 7 working, and fast, because of vista. Vista is a failure, if they don't do something about it, it will hurt them.
Just curious, before vista came out did you ever see a linux Pc for sale in a store, like walmart?
I bet not. And Vista is the reason why you see it now. Vista's Failure has brought mac and linux into the mainstream.
Linux by Choice, M$ by force. (school work only)And it not only looks better, it is better, if you don't use it, I suggest you do. Wine work well with most portableapps.
I should stop hijacking this threat. Sorry For the hijack.
but back to the portableapps side of this.
Hopefully, this is just what the topic says, a bug, which has not be found until now, and will soon be corrected. IT is however possible that, it's not a bug, and will never get fixed, which leave us here with a jolly rotten headache. For now, lets wait til the next beta get leaked and see if there's a difference, I hope there is, if not, we may be in some deep poo and have to re-write a lot of installers.
Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.
UPX'ing won't help as Windows searches for both the manifest and the NSIS headers. Neither are compressed by UPX. What would help, however, is adding a manifest. Use RequestExecutionLevel in NSIS. That disables the compatibility mode on Windows Vista and should probably work on Windows 7 as well.
We do the RequestExecution level in NSIS which is why this error doesn't occur in Vista or in Windows 7 Beta 1
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
just a note here i am having no troubles with portable apps or win7 on my system
worth noting here win 7 was released same day i ordered the parts to assemble my beast (8 gig of ram at 1066mhz for the win(only in win7 tho lol))
the only issue ive even seen is that the little previews dont work with mozilla ... yet
yes win+p is now asigned to projector settings but this has been the case for many laptops for a while including my dell windows xp system
you said:
The big issue is that it thinks the app installers fail when they in fact succeed..
i have not seen this once with portable apps installers but have had the issue with other installers primarily drivers and Microsoft games older than 2003 try installing age of empires the original and u get it lol Microsoft making there own software fail install when it dont
it is worth noting that i have been using windows 7 as my primary system since about a week after official release into beta and use portable apps for everything and i mean everything (external drive means if windows dies my files dont)
when u need somthing checked i am willing to assist
i know u all do your best and i thank you for your patience
The official beta release (build 7000) does not have this issue. The recent leaked build (build 7057), which is believed to be officially leaked by Microsoft and will be the release candidate build, does.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
This bug still exists in the latest leaked build (Build 7068) from under 2 weeks ago. Looks like the Program Compatibility Assistant is just royally screwed up in Windows 7 and will break with tons of installers around the world.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Just like HTML standards have changed over the years and some sites immediately dropped support for the old standards and forced users to switch to the new ones maybe Microsoft is doing the same thing. It's normal in the IT world for standards to change. And if you want to continue to play in the game you have to change also. Backward comatibility would be nice and continued support for the old while the new is phased in would be welcomed but it costs time and money to support two sets of standards it's less expensive to have a clean break with the old. Even if it's inconvenient for the users, that's their problem. They need to keep up.
Ed
This is pretty different as it is an arbitrary decision to flag installers that don't alter the add/remove programs list as broken. Vista already flags uninstallers for GIMP, 7-Zip, and lots of others as breaking when you click to uninstall and cancel it. Windows 7 will now flag all installers that don't edit add/remove, update installers, plugin installers, etc. It makes for a poor customer experience.
Granted, this is still early on and only affects the leaked builds (not the public beta). If it's in the public release candidate in a few weeks, we'll be making sure to raise lots of awareness especially in the open source community as they'll be disproportionately affected.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
With the number of people on the Internet and the number who use PortableApps, and the fact it is all Open Source, there should be thousands of people who will be coding the fixes needed within hours of the problem being confirmed.
The advantages of Open Source; no budget restraints, no staffing restraints, no planning meetings, etc. = MUCH faster reaction time.
Which is probably why Microsoft is implementing the standard. It won't be a show stopper.
Ed
This is a bit different as it seems that Microsoft is purposely detecting everything made with NSIS as a standard installer and erroring if something within add/remove programs is not altered. So, the NSIS folks would have to code around this in the dark... there is no Microsoft-published switch to get installers working properly (as there was with Vista and what level of rights installers need)... possibly even removing the characters "NSIS" from the entire installer depending on the way the Windows Compatibility Assistant is detecting it.
If NSIS does manage to do that, we'd then need to recompile the launcher for every single app we have and then repackage it in an updated installer and post it. And then wait to see if Microsoft breaks it again in a Windows Update.
Or, we can wait until the RC, see if the bug is still there and then publicly raise hell about the bug.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I've confirmed this affects build 7077 as well which is again rumored to be the release candidate. Looks like we may have to go public once the RC is released and get some attention on this.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
In windows 7 this key combination brings the menu that alt+space does. It doesn't open the menu. (version 1.6)
Artificial intelligence stands no chance against natural stupidity!
1.6 still uses Win+P
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
your comment on Slashdot John, I guess this is the:
bit
If it's in the official release candidate, we're going to go public with it. Think announcements, a press release, etc.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
PCA is a Windows component that tries to help older applications work on new versions of Windows. It uses heuristics to decide how old an application is, and whether or not the app had any problems installing or running.
In Windows Vista, PCA looked for the presence of a manifest in an exe that set a RequiredExecutionLevel. If found, the PCA assumed that the exe was built to target Windows Vista, and that the exe was tested on Vista. If not, and the exe was an installer, PCA would check the Add/Remove Programs list to see if the exe succeeded. If no ARP entry was made, PCA would offer to rerun the exe in Windows XP SP2 compatability mode.
For Windows 7, PCA no longer looks at the RequiredExecutionLevel setting. Now it uses the new Compatibility section of the manifest to identify exes built for Windows 7. This new style has been designed specifically for application compatability, and we plan to use it in future versions as well.
More info here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd371711(VS.85).aspx
Note that the old RequiredExecutionLevel and the new Compatability sections can co-exist, so an exe can run without seeing a PCA dialog on both Vista and Windows 7.
Thanks for the details, Doug. I just created a patch for NSIS based on that document and posted it here:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2725883&group_id=22049&...
Unfortunately, it'll mean we have to recompile every launcher and every installer for every single app, which is pretty bad... and a good amount of work. We had to do the same thing when Vista was released... granted we had far fewer apps and language packs then. Hopefully this one will stay consistent through future revisions.
Thanks again for popping in with the details, it's much appreciated.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I've been playing around with PortableApps on build 7100 x64 (the "for real this time" release candidate build) for a couple hours now and so far, no errors. However, I never tried any of the other leaked builds. I had the beta (which worked fine) and this is the first time I've tried anything since, so I've never actually seen the error in action. However, assuming it's the same "this program might not have installed correctly" that I sometimes see in Vista when installing a program that needs compatibility mode, I have not seen it. This has just been with launching the programs, I will try installing one and check back.
Update: Installed FFPE, no problems
Note: These were the versions downloaded straight from here, not recompiled with the NSIS patch, so looks good.
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
The current FFPE builds ARE patched with the Win7 NSIS patch.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Ok, I'll try an older version of some other apps. But the apps that I've been RUNNING, such as GIMP and Pidgin, I know that I downloaded long before you even created that patch. So the launchers seem to work just fine.
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
If you launch them directly, it causes the issue. If you launch them from say the PortableApps.com Menu, it doesn't occur.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Ok, sorry I didn't realize that. Like I said, I only had the official beta. Tried launching directly and I did get the error. However, the patched version worked fine. I'll try recompiling a few launchers to check that out as well.
[Update] Recompiling PidginPortable.exe and running it directly works without error. I am getting NSIS errors trying to recompile the installer... I'm probably missing some plugins, but combining that with FFPE installing without error, I would say the patch is good to go... but that's gonna be a pain...
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
Since the patch to makenis.exe seems to be a fairly minor change to the installer's manifest, can the patched version be considered stable enough for normal use?
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
Ok, so it looks like I'm getting the "This program might not have installed correctly" dialog when installing programs, but not when running them. Sounds like it may be time to raise hell.
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
The latest FFPE (3.0.10) is packaged using the NSIS patch as John developed the patch and packaged FFPE. If so I'd say this is confirmation that it works
PortableApps.com Advocate
Hello, I have tried windows 7 from beta to the latest RC. The most annoying problem for me is when i pin portable firefox and portable thunderbird to the new taskbar. When i run these programs from the taskbar i get duplicate icons. Is there a solution to this?
Thanks for anyone who replies.
Windows 7 can't handle multi-EXE programs with the pin to taskbar option. At all. There is no real workaround. You'll either wind up pinning Firefox.exe (which won't be portable) or FirefoxPortable.exe (and get another icon when running).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
So this is not gonna be fixed by microsoft anytime soon? I wonder if they even know this.
Anyway, thanks for the reply.
I might have found a workaround - but it is not currently working for me in W7 64bit - anyone else give it a shot and see if it works?
http://www.tomthong.de/blogs/ali/en/2009/06/jumplist-launcher-version-1/
__
JG
Even though NSIS is being phased out here, I just thought I'd mention that I've tried out NSIS 2.45 where they officially support Windows 7. The Windows 7 fix works fine, but they also "fixed" a bug in the !searchparse command and actually ended up breaking it... but that seems to be fixed in the latest nightly build. Just chiming in on that for the people who are still using NSIS. If you upgrade to 2.45 and use !searchparse and get errors, get the nightly build:
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Development_Files
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.
I just found this interesting article on how the Windows 7 superbar works behind the scenes, and there is some interesting information about how it might be possible to get icons to group together (see the section on AppID's). I don't know how this can actually be done, but it may be a start. From the article, if two running processes have the same AppID, they are grouped to the same icon.
Looks like this could be done with NSIS's System plugin???
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/developers/archive/2009/06/18/developin...
Quamquam omniam nescio, nec nihil scio.