Yesterday I converted my portable hard drive from FAT32 to NTFS. All seemed to go well without any issues at all. I was able to use my various applications without any issues at all. Surfed the net, did some Toucan jobs, etc. No issues. However when I ejected my drive using the eject button on the menu (Mod 34 patch for 1.5 PAP 
) there was an issue as TaskCoach was hidden is the systray but I didn't know till it popped up with an error then closed.
This morning at work I can't properly use my Firefox properly as it seems like a fresh install even though I can see my profile is still in the data folder. Also TaskCoach can't find it's task database. Even when I direct it to it manually I get an error message when I close it. Also Toucan is having a number of issues that basically says failed to update configuration file or something
Also ttheres seems to be some issue with write access? I noticed it seems like all my folders have the read-only attribute but the files within are still normal. When I try to change it I get an error message saying access is denied
Can someone please help asap as I need to use this drive today.
Many many thanks
horusofoz
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First, you probably haven't lost too much, so just take it one step at a time.
Check drive for errors and fix. Then copy all files off the drive, reformat as FAT32, then copy back.
Your Firefox profile is probably partial corrupt. Do the standard process of creating a new one as detailed on mozillaZine and other sites (back it up, create a new one, copy the uncorrupted bits in like passwords, cookies, bookmarks, etc).
Remember that MOD34 full replaces PAM 1.5, so you're not actually using the real PAM at all. The eject script included with some themes can hard close apps (basically crash them) if I recall correctly, and should really not be used. Many of the eject scripts floating around suffer from this. That's one of the reasons we don't use it in the official PAM.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
As I'm at work now I can't do this as I don't have admin rights. The work I needed OpenOffice, TaskCoach, Pidgin, KeePass and GIMP for will have to wait until tomorrow. Tonight when I get home I'll do what you've outlined. I hoped there was a way to fix it without admin rights. Just had to explain to my manager how despite how expensive the software our organisation bought was, it couldn't perform the functions of the free OSS apps that I had on my portable. A possible upside to this is may result in him leaning on IT to install some of the OSS apps to the work computers.
Seeing as I now have to wait I might ask a few questions to get a better understanding of exactly what happened that caused this issue.
1) Is it most likely the cause of the issue was (a)converting the drive to NTFS, (b) Using the Mod 34 or (c) the mods eject script specifically?
2) If it wasn't the NTFS conversion, would you recommend using FAT32 over NTFS as I only converted so that I could put my Ubuntu VirtualBox on my portable hard drive?
3) With the official PAP/PAM eject script, if I activated it while an app like TaskCoach Portable was running in the systray, will the script correctly close the app or kill it, or notify user that the app is open, etc?
4) Is there anything you can suggest that I might be able to start doing now without admin rights to fix the portable?
5) If I got home and was able to change the folder attributes to writeable (All have been changed to read only somehow) would that likely fix my issue? I think apart of my problem is the apps can't copy there settigns around etc because there fodlers are marked as read only.
6) Is the official declared by JTH himself name, PortableAps Platform (PAP) or PortableApps Menu (PAM) or is this still in fluctuation?
PortableApps.com Advocate
for 6) it's been PortableApps.com Platform for sometime now
the other issues John can answer but you should be able to do the stuff without admin rights afaik
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
I can't check for errors. Don't think I can format drives. Though not rights related I can't copy my data to the work pc. I have a 143 GB of data in use and the work pc only has a 60 GB hard drive that is partitioned into 2 halves. Also if it did have the capacity not sure how I or the IT department would feel about transferring that volume of data onto the pc. Seems I'm screwed till I get home. Thats why in the meantime I want to find out as much as I can about the problem, its cause and rememdies.
PortableApps.com Advocate
is something floating about, in one of the threads here, about the NTFS/FAT issue. I have a portable hard drive myself, that I converted to NTFS and I understand that once it's converted from a FAT to NTFS system, if you move it from your home system to another system, the changeover isn't compatible with the foreign computer. You'd have to search it to find out what this does, but I've seen it around, awhile back.
Edit: This may be the OP: https://portableapps.com/node/2149#comment-9658
NTFS has issues with rights on Vista and later due to changes in the OS. You can use NTFS but you must turn security off. The easiest way is to format as FAT32 and then convert to NTFS with the /nosecurity switch. I think selecting the drive and changing everyone to full control may work, too, but I'm not sure.
There are too many eject scripts floating around to keep track. I've seen some that crash apps by killing them. I've seen others that miss apps that don't have an active window displayed. It's important to realize that there is no PortableApps.com eject script official or unofficial. There are a few for the MOD but all I've seen have issues and aren't supported.
The name is the PortableApps.com Platform which consists of the PortableApps.com Menu, PortableApps.com Backup, autorun, custom folders, etc and has been for quite some time now.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
If I wanted to continue with NTFS so that I could keep my Ubuntu and other Virtualboxes on the drive, would it be possible for me to reconvert to NTFS using the /no security switch? Or would it be recomended I move to FAT32 still?
Also a big thanks for the help. I pretty much freaked out when this happened as I couldn't figure what caused it. Now I've calmed down and with the info from you guys should be able too either fix thi back to NTFS without security or FAT32 and just put my virtualboxes into 2gb split archives.
My preference is for NTFS but if this isn't practical then I'll go back to FAT32. Any further advice on this particular would be appreciated. Even if just opinions would be good to get more input before I decide.
Cheering ya'll
Horusofoz = )
PortableApps.com Advocate
the /nosecurity switch only specifies the security flags for the converted files at the time of conversion
It will give you a perfectly working drive, that will be fully usable on any (wi2k or higher) computer. It will continue to work everywhere until something happens to set the access on a file or folder
In theory, this should never happen unless you do it explicitly. But this is windows we're talking about, and we all know how often it does what it thinks you meant instead of what you expected it to do.
Sooner or later, you will end up copying files onto the drive that are only accesible, or only writable, on the computer that created them.
Once this happens, it is fairly easy to fix, but you will need administrator rights to do it. You just need to reset the root folder access to allow full access to Everyone, which hopefully it will still have, and then tell it to copy that access to all subfiles and folders, discarding any specified rights on those subfiles.
For today, to be able to work, see if you can make a copy of your PortableApps folder on the drive, say as :PAppsTemp. You may be able to write new files to the drive even though you can't write to existing ones. If you can, then you should be able to use that copy today as normal, since the user you are currently logged in as will own the files. Once you get home, use administrator access to reset the permissions for everything and copy the changed data back into your old location. (make sure you take a backup first!)
As for which to use... unless you need something that only NTFS can provide, use FAT32 instead, it makes for a simpler life.
Personally, I'm stuck with NTFS on my portable HDD as I store files bigger than 4Gb on it, and I still occasionally find problems with access, even though I'm the sysadmin at work and fix these things for a living.
I was planning on going with NTFS but if you have the occassional access issue as a sysadmin then a noob like me is gonna go nuts within a month
Plus if NTFS has issues in Vista there likely to continue or be otheres in Windows7 so yeah for now I'll drop FAT32. Wish they could develop a solution that made it possible to have NTFS performance without the access issues but 
Or just patch FAT32 (FAT32.1) to make it possible to open and store 4+GB files.
Anyway thanks again
Oh any advice on how to format back to FAT32 with XP? My portable is over 140GB
EDIT: One thing I need to ask is with these access issues are they on general use files or advanced system stuff? Sorry to draw this out so much its just so much literature on the net says NTFS is superior in every way. The reason I'm asking for assurance is well PA.com has had the best support for me in the past so I am willing to take the advice here over a multitude of other sites. Additionally I didn't see anything about this security/access issue until it happened to me and googled for it specifically.
PortableApps.com Advocate
usually the issues and problems crop up when you've done something relatively out of the ordinary.
For example, sometimes, if you copy large blocks of data (with subfolders and suchlike) then windows will copy the access rights across with the files, rather than setting the access based on the rights currently in place at the destination. Sometimes it wont. Similarly for moving files, sometimes the security moves with them, sometimes it doesn't.
In general operation, the vast majority or applications working on files, creating new documents, editing old ones etc. will be totally fine, and cause no problems at all.
The last time I had problems was when I transferred about 4000 jpeg files onto the HDD to take to a friend's house, and I couldn't access about 20% of the sub-albums once I got there, until I fixed the permissions (she had admin access on the PC).
When I got back home I checked, and sure enough, there were slight differences in the access rights for those folders on my C: drive, which had caused the behaviour. No idea how it originally happened though...
I'm afraid that there is no easy way to convert from NTFS back to FAT32 without purchasing something like Partition Magic, which I believe can do it. Your only option is to copy all the data off to somewhere safe and reformat.
Given that that is the case, it may be worth you trying just resetting the access rights on your drive once you get home, and try out NTFS for a few weeks. Worst case, you'll need to reset the permissions again.
I've just spent ages trying to search the net for a way to convert or format NTFS to FAT32 and seems it can't be done with any native Windows tool. At least I think so. Some sites report it can be done via the command line but only for partitions up to 36 GB+/-. Some say EASEUS Partition magic (Freeware version) can format it but I can't see that option in the features section
I think I will trial NTFS for a lil while now but have to ask is it possible for me to remove all the security features without reformatting using the /nosecurity switch? Also, just so I definitely understand, if I do this is the access issue likely to recur even when formatted to nosecurity?
Thanks for your help
EDIT: just realised that as relunctant as I am to learn the lesson, this headache with the drives is forcing we to learn more about my pc
PortableApps.com Advocate
first of all, it is not possible to actually remove the security features from NTFS. They are inherent to the system.
The only thing that the /nosecurity flag does is to define that the initial setup for everything on the drive already includes the specific access right "Everyone has full access to this" for each file and folder. This is effectively the same as not having security, but it is only an initial state, tighter security can be added to entities on the drive at any future point.
But you can definitely modify the current contents of your drive to match that "no security" model
First of all, open windows explorer, and go to My Computer.
Right-click on the drive icon for your flash drive and choose Properties
Select the Security tab
Find and select the "Everyone" entry in the top section of the dialog
Make sure that ALL the boxes in the allow column below are ticked, and none of the deny column.
Click on the Advanced button
Tick the box near the bottom that says "Replace permission entries on all child objects with entries shown here that apply to child objects"
Click on the OK button
You will get a warning that this will remove any access rights set on existing files, or somesuch. This is exactly what you want to do.
That should ensure that the special system user "Everyone" can access all the files and folders fully, and, since the special numeric UUID for "Everyone" is the same on all windows computers, it should work wherever you plug the drive in.
You will need to be administrator to do it, but any admin can do it on any computer that they can plug it into. (which is why using NTFS permissions to safeguard data is only good without physical access to the drive).
If you have trouble down the line with access, then you will basically need to go through the same process again.
I'm currently at home on XP SP3 machine with full admin rights. However when I right click on drive and go to properties I don't have the tab. I googled and it says something about having simple sharing turned on. Does this mean anything to you?
EDIT: Scratch that. I found how to switch off simple sharing through the folder options>view tab. Ok I've followed all your instructions and will try it tomorrow at work. Thanks again.
PortableApps.com Advocate
Firstly a PHAT thanks to you guys = ) I'm now using NTFS as I needed it for a number of large ISOs and VirtualBox virtual hard drives. Starting to experiment with Ubuntu a bit and loving it so far.
Another issue has now arisen. I can't eject my device
I'm guessing this has something to do with allowing every possible permission to minimize the possibility of permission issues stopping me from accessing my files. In retrospect this was a bit of overkill. So if your up for it, could someone tell me what permissions specifically to allow and which to not which may be causing this issue. Alternatively if it is unlikely this is the source of my issue can you assist with some troubleshooting.
Thanks
PortableApps.com Advocate
NTFS drives can be.... more challenging to safely eject than FAT32, mostly due to the way that the OS handles the drive.
First, and easiest thing to try, is to go and get a copy of unlocker (there is a portable launcher at https://portableapps.com/node/12210 ) and see if it detects any files still open on the drive.
It could be anything from an app that you forgot you'd launched, to the working directory of an explorer process or launcher (I find that rocketdock sometimes sets its WD to the home of whatever app it launched last).
Anyway, if it is one of those, then unlocker can probably tell you what and allow you to fizx it cleanly. It it also possible, though, that the system itself is holding some of the metadata files ($MFT, $BITMAP, $LOGFILE, etc.) open, in which case you don't have so many good options...
The only clean way at that point would be to reboot, but you can minimize the chances of errors if you really need to by using a program called sync. It forces all cached write data to be flushed out to disk. You can get it from Microsoft, free, at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897438.aspx
After running that (with the -r flag) all the data should be flushed out to your drive. If eject still won't work, you can either reboot, or take the chance on just pulling it.
For obvious reasons, I can only "recommend" that you reboot and do it cleanly. I have in the past had to pull drives (haven't we all) and so far, I've never lost data from an NTFS drive after running sync before pulling it. Your mileage may vary.
I've been rebooting/shutting down since my last post. This has caused me a few headaches as work has been truly chaotic as of late which is why its taken so long to get back to say thanks and report this new issue. I've used Unlocker on it and it says Windows Explorer is accessing the drive. I think there were one or 2 other things like that on different occassions I stopped or kiled with Unlocker but still couldn't unlock.
Any other ideas?
EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that I dont use Unlocer portable running of the drive when I try to use it. I copy it to the desktp and run it there. It says explorer.exe is still accessing the drive. Ireally got no idea why this is happening and I dont think it could be a launcher running in background as I am patient when ejecting and last night I test by leaving the portable in overnight and trying to eject in the morning.
I still get the following message:
"The device 'Generic volume' cannot be stopped because a program is still accessing it."
now this doesn't make sense as i have closed every app related to it. Thats why i'm guessing it's a windows process. However this is NEVER occured for a ear using FAT32. I searched but couldn't find anything relating NTFS to ejection issues and if it did I'm sure word would be widespread. However the idea that something I set with the permissions in allowing every single possible permission may have something to do with it seems more plausible to me. Maybe an indexing thing or something? I'm not sure and after creating this issue I don't want to go editing permissions without being better informed. So once again, can you guys help?
Cheers
EDIT2: just tested again with Unlocker (Running from desktop) and this time it shows nothing at all touching the drive. Yet still when I try to disconnect it's failing
PortableApps.com Advocate
when Explorer is the process locking the drive, it almost always means simply that one of the explorer processes running currently has something on the drive as its working directory. It is safe in this case to use Unlocker to unlock these explorer processes.
If Unlocker shows nothing at all (which sometimes happens to me as well), then it is usually windows itself that has the metadata files open. I have another (commercial) app called "USB Safely Remove" which can spot these sometimes, though I have never found a way to release these locks. I usually risk removing the drive (I have a full backup of it) and so far it has never caused any corruption, but I would definitely not recommend it unless you do have a good and recent backup of the drive.
1) Using unlocker to remove m drive every time just isn't practical really. I can't install Unlocker to every computer I use.
2) I can't afford backups of my 500gb drive.
3) Is there any way to figure out if changing all the permissions has any affect on how Windows accesses the drives metadata?
4)Please dont think that my ongoing references to permissions is meant to somehow project any blame for my current issue being a reslut of your advice. In truth I got a little lost while implementing your permissions suggestions and ended up authorising everyone I could. Thats why I think it may be related.
Can anyone else with knowledge of how windows interacts with hardware offer any ideas please?
PortableApps.com Advocate
If this is happening all the time, could you try a few simple experiments....
Insert the drive, wait for activity to stop, eject the drive without running anything.
If that ejects OK, could you try repeating the above, but each time just run one app, close it, see if you can still eject.
It is possible that one of the apps you commonly use is triggering this behaviour, since I only see a non-ejectable drive once in every 50 to 100 times I try to eject.
To answer your questions (hopefully)
1) Agreed - it would be highly impractical. We need to find the root cause
2) I sync my 500Gb drive (which has about 300Gb on it) with my home PC, but I can understand that this would be impractical for many people. Do you have copies of any of the truly irreplacable items on it? For example, I've seen far too many people in the past devastated when a hard drive failure caused them to lose their entire collection of digital photographs of many family occasions, etc.
3) Permissions affect who can access an item, then have no effect on who does access it. Theoretically, the permissions on the contents of the drive should have no effect whatsoever on how the system accesses it or locks is.
4) Understood, and it is perfectly normal and reasonable to question most the parts of a process that you understand least. The permissions change was a mysterious black box to you, it is only natural that you should wonder what exactly it has done.
If you want to see how the permissions should look, try to get hold of a little, old, empty flash drive that you can reformat. Format it as fat, and convert it with the /nosecurity flag
/fs:ntfs /nosecurity
convert
then take a look at what it has set as the ACLs for the root folder. You can replicate this onto your drive and copy it to all sub-items.
Thanks Jimbo and John for all your help. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit the soltion to my problem was given in the very first response which I overlooked as Firefox was still functioning. Basically after fixing the whole permissions issue with NTFS I didn't remember John's advice regarding the partial corruption of the FFP profile.Using Jimbo's method to isolate the issue I found out it was Firefox. I reinstalled over the top but same issue arose. Next I synced the profile to my local install then delete FFP completey, did a fresh install then copied my profile back over and the saem issue still occurred. That's when i realised it was the profile and remembered John's original post and how I had frgotten to check this out. Anyway with that realised today I did a fresh install, copied over my place.sqlite and reinstalled addons afresh.
A good thing is I removed some older addons that I realized I didn't need and rearranged my layout to way I now prefer. just gotta install the flash plugin once I get home and same with Shockwave.
Thanks again guys
Spoke too soon
I just tried to eject here at work and wouldn't work after like 10 goes
I know this is an issue as it used to be a max of 2 attempts if I was impatient while the launchers cleaned up after themselves. Now it's buggered 
Can anyone think of a reason this might be happening?
PortableApps.com Advocate
At work, is that a won't eject straight after plugging it in, without having run any software? Or is it after running various apps?
If it is the former, then it is time to start looking at differences between your home and work PCs, or things that access a USB HDD without user intervention.
What antivirus software is running there, and is it possible that it is trying to scan?
Do you have the recycle bin open, or any software installed that "guards" it in any way (either for secure deletes, or accidental delete prevention)
Is system restore running?
All external drives that are mounted as "fixed" rather than "removable" get a System Volume Information folder and a Recycler folder, which the system could be using and locking.
System Volume Information shouldn't be in use, since there shouldn't be anything on the drive that Windows thinks of as a system file, but then, this is Windows we're talking about, so anything is possible.
Recycler can be locked on all drives by something as simple as having a recycle bin window open, or, potentially by any enhancement utilities running.
As you may gather from the fact I've not mentioned these options before, I'm starting to clutch at straws here to try to think of what could be causing this for you.
Just happened to stumble across this and realised I had never responded = (
Not sure what I did to fix the drive but is working pretty much right now. Do get the occasionally locked drive and have to shut down to eject but that's to be expected. I realise this isn't very helpful but just wanted to say thanks as I'm sure it would have been following one or more of your instructions that got it right.
Cheers
PortableApps.com Advocate