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KidSafe 5.0.1.0 Development Test 1 [OUTDATED]

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agdurrette
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I found a bug in vista: I run

I found a bug in vista: I run the app, I enter in the unlock code and I try to press OK but nothing happens , I get an error ding :|

I will test it on windows xp tomorrow and see what I can find, I got to go to bed Sad

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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Thanks for the report; I have

Thanks for the report; I have a pretty good idea what the problem is, but I'm on my way out the door right now. I'll fix that later this afternoon...
(Maybe you could post the contents of Prefs.dat? That could be useful in tracking this down if my idea's wrong...)

I'll add you to the project later this afternoon as well... CodePlex is pretty slow to load for me so I can't do it right now.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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I made a small mistake, But

I made a small mistake, But it still applies later. :/

When I first started the app it went to the lock down screen, I had to use task manager to exit it.

There is no Prefs.dat in KidSafePortable\data, Do I have to copy it from KidSafePortable\App\DefaultData?

I copied KidSafePortable\App\DefaultData\Prefs.dat to KidSafePortable\data, this is where the later bug comes in.

Im going to be busy today, But I will finish the rest of the report tomorrow.
Do you want me to use the Issue Tracker on Codeplex for bug reports?

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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Dang it. I changed the prefs

Dang it.
I changed the prefs format from INI to DAT, but forgot to change the launcher... Sad
I also figured out why you were having that problem on Vista, and think I solved the problem... after I update the launcher & help file, and add a couple of new menu items, I'll post the update.
Thanks for the reports! I probably wouldn't have noticed either bug for at least a week or two...

It's just as well you're busy for the rest of the day, I'm not expecting to have the update out until this evening and 4.1.0.0 clearly has some fairly major issues...

Using the issue tracker on CodePlex would be great! It's a good way of keeping an eye on bugs without cluttering the PA.c forums... I'm headed over there right now to add you to the project.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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For the next versions I will

For the next versions I will use the bug tracker on CodePlex for any bugs I find on xp and vista.

Sweet Smile im apart of something Smile

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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RE:

agdurretteFor the next versions I will use the bug tracker on CodePlex for any bugs I find on xp and vista.

Great, thanks!
I've got the bugs cleared out again now that 4.1.1.0's public... hopefully the tracker stays clear. Smile

agdurretteSweet Smile im apart of something Smile

yes, you really are an integral part of this... your feedback has been extremely valuable. Biggrin
I've already added you to the credits section of the app, but you're definitely getting a bigger write-up after we work through 4.1.1... Biggrin

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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Updated 2009-12-06, see above for details

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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I added a issue on codeplex.

I added a issue on codeplex.

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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Thanks! I saw that, got to

Thanks! Smile
I saw that, got to it and handled all the bugs you mentioned - I'm uploading version 4.3.0.0, with all fixes on board, right now. Hopefully this one will be error-free... *knocks on wood*

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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Updated 2009-12-08 (again)

Updated 2009-12-08 (again), see above for details

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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More miscellaneous but important stuff

First, I'm still looking for people to help with documentation - if you're willing to help out, let me know! Anything ranging from a simple FAQ to a full-fledged wiki would be great.
Even if you don't have a CodePlex account, I'll be happy to accept any documentation and give the author full credit for it. (If you do have a CodePlex account, let me know & I will add you to the project so you can have easy access to the documentation-editing tools)

Next, I'm also looking for more beta testers - agdurrette is doing a stellar job, but he can't cover Windows 7 and neither can I. It's also likely we can't cover all corner cases: several of the recently-fixed bugs have been discovered by sheer chance. More testers will help cover all possibilities and all trouble spots; the best way to find a flaw in something is to put plenty of pressure on it, and more testers will definitely put more pressure on KidSafe.

Last, but definitely not least, I think we're finally ready for an official PortableApps.com release. After several point releases and plenty of bug fixes, the bug tracker is completely empty; if nobody reports any new issues by 2009-12-17, I'll put a post in the "Apps Ready for Official Release" thread. With any luck, KidSafe will become an official PortableApps.com release on Christmas Day...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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Sorry Iv been a sick and a

Sorry Iv been a sick and a little slow lately Sad
But I will get a full report done tonight.
Edit: I also have some ideas on documentation, I will talk to you about that later. Stupid cold Sad
Also: do you have a Google wave account?

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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Don't worry about it, you've

Don't worry about it, you've really done a stellar job Smile
Anytime you're ready is OK by me...

I don't have a Google Wave account, unfortunately. Maybe start a new discussion in Codeplex?

Thanks! Biggrin

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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The one bug that I found is

The one bug that I found is up.
f you want a google wave invite let me know. Ok, I will make one some time tomorrow.. hopefully.

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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I replied to your bug

I replied to your bug report... should be an interesting discussion.

Thanks anyway, but I'll pass on the Wave invite - I don't like some of its features. (Chat logging, the ability to see what someone's typing as they're typing it, etc.)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

Gord Caswell
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Suggestion

On the copeplex page, rather than having the license agreement pop-up, it's probably better to integrate the license into the launcher itself.
Why?

1. There's already functionality built-in to do this
2. pop-ups are often evil...

computerfreaker
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Sorry, but I don't think I

Sorry, but I don't think I can change that. Here's why...
* First, IIRC, I'm required to give the project a license
* Second, that popup isn't mine - it belongs to CodePlex. I have no control over it, and don't like it there either...

(And btw, the license is integrated into the installer already... which makes things even worse)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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error report updated

error report updated

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computerfreaker
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Thanks for the update, I've

Thanks for the update, I've replied to your report & will be releasing the fixes tomorrow morning.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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agdurrette just finished beta

agdurrette just finished beta testing (thanks so much, you were absolutely stellar! :D), so the next step is putting KidSafe on the release queue. According to the current plan, that should take place tomorrow - the 17th - so John has a chance to look it over before Christmas Day, which will hopefully be the official release date.

Feature requests have been frozen for this release - any RFE's won't make it into the release-queue version. They'll have to wait until after Christmas. However, if anyone reports a bug, I will fix it as quickly as I can (probably in the release-queue version); I just need to know ASAP, preferably today, so I can get any fixes out the door before release time. (And keep in mind, if I have to push any fixes John will probably want to re-review KidSafe - not good)

Also, I still need someone to help with documentation. I'm planning to upload the README file, format it a bit, and turn it into a wiki; however, there's no way that's going to cut it. If anyone wants to help write documentation (even some FAQ's would be great) I would be very appreciative...

Finally, I'd like to say a big thank-you to all those who helped:

* agdurrette did a stellar job beta testing, provided a great user's-eye view of KidSafe, and suggested CodePlex for hosting the project; without him, there's no way on this earth KidSafe would be going on the release queue tomorrow.

* gluxon provided a critical bug report for Vista, and subsequently confirmed the bug fix

* digitxp made some valuable suggestions, provided a great new icon, and pointed out a flaw in KidSafe's PAF compliance

* BuddhaChu made sure KidSafe wasn't violating any trademarks

* Aaron Ballman provided the impressive & powerful Windows Functionality Suite, which I borrowed from in several places

* d3nn1as provided a critical function to get a file path from a process ID

* babasse created the cool padlock icon

* tiarescott created the nice beach background that is KidSafe's default background graphic

Thanks, guys! You really rock!! Biggrin

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

kai.inouye
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Hmm, I think it would be

Hmm, I think it would be great if I could type in the lock text when configuring it, it would be bad if someone did a typo there and didnt know it Blum

computerfreaker
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I think I know what you're

I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm not quite sure... Do you mean that the textbox where you put in the new unlock text should be in plain text?
If that's what you're talking about, simply enter NO into the "Treat unlock text boxes like password-entry fields" box.

If that's not what you're talking about, please clarify & I will do my best to help you. Smile

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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This is the last update before the intended official release on Christmas Day. (Disclaimer: I don't know what John's planning; I'm hoping KidSafe will be released on Christmas Day but I don't know if it will be or not)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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Should be finally ready to go

Well, things have been a little hectic lately. After the "feature freeze" on the 18th, concerns arose over KidSafe's power & potential for abuse; I'd especially like to thank Tim Clark and Gizmokid2005 for pointing out security problems & proposing some great fixes. I'd also like to thank sar3th for a pretty important feature request - requiring confirmation of the unlock text before applying it.
The latest release, KidSafe 4.7.0.0, has Tim Clark's, Gizmokid2005's, and sar3th's proposals added; it should be pretty darn secure now, while keeping much of its usefulness. (The only missing "feature" is the ability to run KidSafe without admin rights; that was incredibly dangerous, as Tim kindly pointed out.)

As soon as I secure Tim's stamp of approval on the security fixes, we should be ready for an official release!

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

computerfreaker
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Updated 2010-01-01

Happy New Year!

With the new year and new decade, KidSafe has gotten a new face, a new core, and new life. I talked to John T. Haller in IRC today, and he said KidSafe could be released after certain fundamental changes were made. To the best of my knowledge, those changes were made in version 5.0.0.0.
I will be contacting Mr. Haller again to make sure the rewritten KidSafe has his approval; once it does, we're ready for primetime at long last.

In the meantime, I desperately need some testers - the sooner this goes back on the release queue, the better, and I need plenty of testers to verify that KidSafe is ready for release.
All previous tests (from version 4.7.1.1 back to version 3.3.0.0) are almost completely unreliable due to the completeness of the rewrite.
Please, post feedback - even if you don't find any bugs, a simple "no problems found" would be great.

Thank you, and enjoy 2010!

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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I will get right to it.

I will get right to it.

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agdurrette
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link does not work

link does not work
also: I can't find a download for the older version.

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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Chris Morgan
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Fixed

I just fixed it to the main download page (<a href=""> doesn't get very far, you know ;-)) so that should be OK.

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computerfreaker
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Fixed

Just linked it to the specific release. This is what comes of build/upload/copy/paste all at once, late at night... grr.
Thanks for finding that... and thanks, Chris, for linking to the main download page.

btw, you can find the last "original" version - 4.7.1.1 - here.
Links to all releases can be found in the sidebar at http://kidsafe.codeplex.com.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

Chris Morgan
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Disable license confirmation

Is there any way of disabling the license confirmation? The GPL does not have to be agreed to by the end user at all (it explicitly says so).

I don't like CodePlex... if you do something like this again, please consider going with Google Code (much nicer, simpler, faster... :-)).

I am a Christian and a developer and moderator here.

“A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15:1

computerfreaker
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Sorry, I can't disable the

Sorry, I can't disable the license confirmation.
I'm required to have a license selected for the project; no license, no project. I also have no control over the CodePlex site, and that's what popped the license confirmation. Wish I could change that (someone already asked about that; it seems to be fairly irritating to most people) but I can't.

I'll look into Google Code for the future; thanks for the suggestion!

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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+1

+1 on Google Code Smile

computerfreaker
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Do you guys think I should

Do you guys think I should relocate the project to Google Code?
I can't do it right now, as the semester finals are coming up and I have no time for re-uploading probably 100 MB or more of files, but I could do it in early February...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

Gord Caswell
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are the files already on

are the files already on codeplex? If so, I can transfer them for you, get a project site set up and such, if you'd like.

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yep, the files &

yep, the files & documentation are already on CodePlex.
Main project page: http://kidsafe.codeplex.com
Releases: http://kidsafe.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=38064
Documentation: http://kidsafe.codeplex.com/documentation

If you're willing to set up a project site, etc. that would be great! However, please don't remove the CodePlex releases, since they're being fairly heavily used (almost 350 downloads!)
EDIT: I'm not certain about the wisdom of making that move. The download rate is higher than it's ever been before (60 downloads for 5.0.1.0 already, and it's only been up for 2 days! 45 downloads on Jan. 1, an all-time high for KidSafe), the referral rate is pretty good (181 referrals so far), the page visit count is over a thousand, and the other stats are similarly healthy. (Visit http://kidsafe.codeplex.com/stats for all the stats)
I've already switched hosts once - from MediaFire to CodePlex - and I'm a bit doubtful about the advisability of switching again. A switch could potentially kill off that big boom...

Open discussion here. Anybody who wants can chime in, and all thoughts on the advisability of making the switch are welcome.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

Gord Caswell
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Check the referral stats

Based on the referral stats, it looks like almost all traffic to the site is from this thread.

As such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if switching to Google goes smoothly, particularly if you place a notice on the CodePlex page once everything's done that redirects to Google.

There's always the possibility that some users are -not- downloading KidSafe due to having to agree to the license.

Anyone else have thoughts?

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Interesting points, although

Interesting points, although I doubt anyone's going to back out because they had to hit one extra button...

The biggest worry is the tech sites that are starting to pick up on KidSafe:
http://www.softpedia.com/developer/computerfreaker-63381.html

http://www.technixupdate.com/prevent-changes-to-your-computer-settings-i...

http://www.soft82.com/download/windows/kidsafe/

Eventually those referrals are going to be pretty important, and I have to wonder if the sites in question are going to pick up on the move.
If we're going to move, it's going to have to be now, though. The number of tech sites mentioning KidSafe is growing (that TechnixUpdate article is pretty new - only been up for a day - and we've already got 4 referrals from it), and the number of referrals is going to grow right along with the list of referring sites.

I'm in IRC right now, getting other people's opinions. I'll probably decide based on the reaction in there...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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I think you should move to

I think you should move to Google code. If you do add in the Project Description "Moving to Google Code" and a link to it.
You creat the account and add me to the project and I will add documentation and help ve4jhj upload the files.

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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OK, I guess it's decided

OK, I guess it's decided then.
I've been looking at the Google Code docs, and it looks like it's got more features than CodePlex...

Idea: let's leave the project files in CodePlex for a few weeks after we finish transitioning to Google Code. That way people can still get the files from CodePlex, but they'll see the "moving to Google Code" message.

There could be some delay in the move, though, as I have to clear out one roadblock first...

I'll also help with the file uploads, etc. since my new high-speed connection fully lives up to its name. (I also have a local repository of all the project files, which makes uploading a lot easier here - it just involves uploading instead of downloading, then uploading)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

agdurrette
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Do you have a account already

Do you have a account already made?
Also: I replied to the bug tracker.

"It's just an online installer. It's not going to mug you.", JTH
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computerfreaker
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No, and creating one isn't

No, and creating one isn't possible until I work around a (hopefully minor) roadblock. I'll let you & ve4jhj know once I have an account up and running.

btw, thanks for the bug tracker reply. I replied as well...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Account created

I've got an account set up, and I'm working on creating the project.
Question of the day: should we go with Subversion or Mercurial for version control?
(It's possible/likely we won't even be using version control, as REALbasic projects don't play too well with it, but it never hurts to be ready)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Mercurial

I would suggest Mercurial as the choice to go with, whether you choose to use it or not.

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OK, Mercurial it is.

OK, Mercurial it is.

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The project's set up, but

The project's set up, but there's a couple things I need to mention...

* ve4jhj, I don't have your Google mail/GMail address - I'll need that to add you to the project.
* Also, I just thought of something. I need to repackage all of the builds to reflect the new version numbers, so unfortunately I'm the only one who can upload files right now. It's going to be a long week... Sad

EDIT: forgot to give you guys the link. It's going to be a very long week...
http://code.google.com/p/kidsafe/

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Edit: Email address deleted as it is no longer required by the poster.

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Just added you to the

Just added you to the project, ve4jhj. I deliberately didn't reply to you so you can take out your e-mail address if you like...

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testing for you

computerfreaker: i'm testing.

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Thanks, ve4jhj!

Great! I really appreciate that!
agdurrette is testing again, so between the three of us we should have just about everything covered.

What version(s) of Windows are you on?

Also, if you have a CodePlex account, I can add you to the project. Not a big deal if you don't have one though...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Multiple OS's

I'm currently on Vista, XP, and Wine.

Codeplex account: same as my PA.c account

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Thanks for the info. I'm

Thanks for the info. I'm especially curious to see how KidSafe will run under Wine; I have never tried it as I don't have Wine, and I've never gotten feedback from a Wine user.

Re: Codeplex - I've added you to the project.

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Updated (again) 2010-01-01

Updated (again) 2010-01-01, see above for details.

I apologize for the release frequency (3 releases in 2 days now), but KidSafe is undergoing a lot of code changes; every time I create an upgrade, I release it. Hopefully, things will steady down a bit in a day or two.

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I added a new bug.

I added a new bug.

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Thanks, fixed for 5.0.2. I'll

Thanks, fixed for 5.0.2. I'll wait with the new release for a day or two, since it's an extremely minor bug and others may crop up.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Version Numbering Reset

I'd suggest a version numbering reset. To go from 3 to 5 in a little over a month is serious version inflation. It's gonna leave you nowhere to go as it mature. Perhaps 5.0.2 should be reversioned as 0.5.2 and kept on that path until the product is finalized, tested and ready to be called 'gold'.

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I've been trying to keep the

I've been trying to keep the version # constant with changes I've made - a whole-number release for major changes, a point release for minor improves, and a minor-point release for bug fixes. You're right, though, the version inflation is pretty big...
Still, I can take it up to 255.255.255.255, so it's not all that bad (especially since development is going to slow down dramatically once agdurrette and ve4jhj finish testing).
Want me to reset the version #, or should I leave it as-is? Whatever you say, I'll do.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Major

You don't even get to 1.0 until it's gone gold... ie... no more testing, no more 'beta' label, etc. Then you do point releases for bigger changes, subpoint for security fixes and big fixes. Full point releases are rare one... maybe 2 in a year if you do a lot of work.

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OK, I'll bring the version #

OK, I'll bring the version # down to 0.5.2 in this next release.

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We're moving!

KidSafe will be moving to Google Code in a few weeks.
Sorry about the delay, but I've got to rebuild each KidSafe executable to use the new version numbers, and the semester is ending next week. After the semester ends, I'll have 4 vacation days; I'll use those to rebuild the executables and PAF installers, and upload them to Google Code.

Please keep testing! agdurrette and ve4jhj are doing a great job, but we could always use more testers!

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Ooh

I didn't expect you to be so rapidly receptive of my suggestion of using Google Code as to implement it at once Smile

Once it's in Google Code, you know, ... I'll actually get round to downloading and testing it (through Mercurial I reckon, simpler than downloading a file for some weird reason).

However, make sure you understand the caveats of using Mercurial before you use it over SVN: there are no "portable" GUI clients for Mercurial, you're stuck with either using TortoiseHg on the one machine or the command line hg in a portable manner (it's fine to use, but not a GUI client which really matters to some people).

I was not suggesting that binaries be put in Mercurial version control. That's definitely not a good idea with a complete version control system like Mercurial/Bazaar/Git where you clone/(branch/checkout)/fork the repository and get all the history with it... binaries can very rapidly build up where with SVN you only download the latest revision.

Oh, and come to think of it, you could also use Launchpad... Wink (Just today I've been getting on and doing lots of research into version control systems for my own commercial project and I've decided Bazaar is better than Mercurial and Git - but they're both good too :-)). Or with Mercurial you could also use Bitbucket... or you could go with Git and github or gitorous... or...

Ignore me Smile

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Re: Ooh

Chris MorganI didn't expect you to be so rapidly receptive of my suggestion of using Google Code as to implement it at once Smile

A few other people asked as well, and ve4jhj and agdurrette were both in favor of the move (IIRC, ve4jhj was one of the people who asked in the first place), so it was a fairly easy decision.

Chris MorganOnce it's in Google Code, you know, ... I'll actually get round to downloading and testing it

Great!

Chris MorganHowever, make sure you understand the caveats of using Mercurial before you use it over SVN: there are no "portable" GUI clients for Mercurial, you're stuck with either using TortoiseHg on the one machine or the command line hg in a portable manner (it's fine to use, but not a GUI client which really matters to some people).

OK, I guess it's going to be TortoiseHg. I'll take a RegShot and see about maybe making it portable later in the year...

Chris MorganI was not suggesting that binaries be put in Mercurial version control. That's definitely not a good idea with a complete version control system like Mercurial/Bazaar/Git where you clone/(branch/checkout)/fork the repository and get all the history with it... binaries can very rapidly build up where with SVN you only download the latest revision.

yeah, I've heard putting binaries in version control is a very bad idea. Just the source code... (I'm actually not sure how that will turn out, since REALbasic projects don't go particularly well with SVN... I have a few ideas, but I'll have to see what I can do)

Chris MorganOh, and come to think of it, you could also use Launchpad... Wink (Just today I've been getting on and doing lots of research into version control systems for my own commercial project and I've decided Bazaar is better than Mercurial and Git - but they're both good too Smile ). Or with Mercurial you could also use Bitbucket... or you could go with Git and github or gitorous... or...

Ignore me Smile

For that particular block of advice, I'll have to follow that last line for now. Blum
Seriously, this will be my first-ever time using SVN of any kind - I'm not about to dive in until I get my feet wet first. Wink

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hmm. . . I actually make a subject for once
Chris MorganHowever, make sure you understand the caveats of using Mercurial before you use it over SVN: there are no "portable" GUI clients for Mercurial, you're stuck with either using TortoiseHg on the one machine or the command line hg in a portable manner (it's fine to use, but not a GUI client which really matters to some people).

computerfreakerOK, I guess it's going to be TortoiseHg. I'll take a RegShot and see about maybe making it portable later in the year...

You'll need admin access IIRC. It does alot of shell modifications. On the other hand, there may be a method of doing it similiar to wraithdu's PFA. At least, I think that's the way his worked. Its been a little bit since I played with it.

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Don't try to make TortoiseHg portable

Don't bother trying to make TortoiseHg portable. It's theoretically possible, but currently too hazardous (though once the universal launcher is in place it's one of the sorts of things I'll be looking into).

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(though once the universal

(though once the universal launcher is in place it's one of the sorts of things I'll be looking into).

Please tell me how a universal launcher is going to trump a custom launcher. I'm confused.

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Simpler for development and maintenance

The answer though is that it will be simple to handle things like refreshing shell icon cache, forcing Windows to load this or that new extension which is in the registry, load drivers and services and things like that, insert data into the registry.

Part of it will be that all the code for complex actions will be in the launcher and easily usable via INI commands, rather than in code snippets which get lost and launcher abstractions which end up a mess of multiple version maintenance.

As far as possible, it will be better to try and shoehorn any complex code into the launcher and have it easily accessible rather than having everyone invent their own wheel and make mistakes.

We really should stop hijacking topics Biggrin

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If you don't want me to try,

If you don't want me to try, that's OK... I'll wait.

As for hijacking topics, I appreciate you doing it. Nothing like a good bump to get some more testers... Wink Blum

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Got a story on How To Geek

Got a story on How To Geek today Smile

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Thanks for pointing that

Thanks for pointing that out!

20 page referrals already - w00t! Now I've got to go respond to those who want to know what good it is... then it's time for a move to Google Code.

agdurrette, ve4jhj, you guys ready for the move?

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I am

I am Smile

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Great! I'm working on

Great!
I'm working on rebuilding the old versions right now. I've already changed the version numbers, I just need to rebuild the packages and re-upload them.

I'll be curious to see how people respond to the latest version; I've got a number of fixes in it, including a fix for a semi-vuln my little siblings used to force a hard reboot. (For those interested, the "semi-vuln" is the window's contextual menu - my siblings used the "Move" function and the keyboard arrow keys to move the "About" window offscreen. Since it couldn't be closed, and the password couldn't be entered until it was closed, the computer needed a hard reboot to fix)

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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I'm ready

Ready when you are.

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Working on it

I'm working on it; I already have a couple of the early builds up. Unfortunately, Google Code isn't particularly developer-friendly (IMHO), and it's a slow process since I have to make sure the rebuilt binaries work correctly. I'll probably finish over the weekend.

Does either of you have experience with Google Code? I'm not seeing a lot of power in the interface (e.g. after uploading a file, it's impossible to change the tags on the file), and the whole darn system is pretty confusing.

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Google Code - what the heck??

Anybody know what's up with Google Code? It's eating my uploads; I've uploaded 5 different PAF builds and it's eaten them all. Tried a ZIP and it ate that too. I've only uploaded 7 builds at this point, so I'm nowhere near the 2 GB limit...

I'm starting to wonder if the move is such a good idea after all - the Google Code interface is hard to work with (feels more like working around it sometimes), there's a lot of hidden functionality (e.g. deleting a file is a well-hidden function) and now it eats the files??

Any Google Code users want to comment? I really want to do the move, since several users have requested it explicitly and the general consensus seems to be "move", but this is a bit insane...

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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(Arbitrary title; sometimes it'd be convenient to have none ;-))

I can see lots of files here (note that that's with "All downloads" selected in the search bar).

You've marked them all with Deprec[i]ated (those you marked with Depreciated really should be fixed to Deprecated!). That means that they don't appear in the normal download view.

However, I see that you have uploaded some of those files a few times... they vanished, did they, not just you deleting them? Did it give any message about it?

Do read its explanations as to why it's difficult to delete files (and after a week or so you can't). It makes a lot of sense.

I find the Google Code interface easy to work with myself. Far better than SourceForge or CodePlex.

If you like you can come in to #portableapps on Monday and we could try and nut out any issues together.

Also if you like you could try looking at Launchpad (Bazaar isn't quite as easy to work with as SVN, requiring a bit of setting up with PuTTY as well, but now that I'm used to it and have it set up I like it far more than SVN). Its interface seems to me to generally be a smidgeon more confusing than Google Code's though (it's just generally more technical) - though I haven't used it for administering a project at all, just as a project member.

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Re:

Chris MorganI can see lots of files here (note that that's with "All downloads" selected in the search bar).

I'll be danged. All the files I uploaded are there... thanks for pointing that out!
*hating Google Code's interface*

ChrisMorganYou've marked them all with Deprec[i]ated (those you marked with Depreciated really should be fixed to Deprecated!). That means that they don't appear in the normal download view.

Shoot. I was typing some of those labels by hand last night, and assumed depreciated was the correct word; I just found out that deprecated is the right word after a quick web search. I'll go fix those right now. Thanks!

Chris MorganHowever, I see that you have uploaded some of those files a few times... they vanished, did they, not just you deleting them? Did it give any message about it?

Just vanished. I hit the "Upload" button, uploaded the files, and they vanished without a trace.
In fairness to GC, a couple of the multiple uploads have been deliberate; I screwed up a couple of builds, realized what happened, and went back to fix them & re-upload them.

Chris MorganDo read its explanations as to why it's difficult to delete files (and after a week or so you can't). It makes a lot of sense.

Got a link handy? My search for "delete file google code" didn't turn up any links on Google Code itself, just some 3rd-party sites/blogs. The logic I saw on those 3rd-party sites was that the files were "part of the project's history"; not sure how that's important enough to prevent deletion though?

Chris MorganI find the Google Code interface easy to work with myself. Far better than SourceForge or CodePlex.

Another case of different people liking different things... I found the CodePlex interface to be really easy & the Google Code interface to be pretty darn hard to use. Maybe I've just gotten acclimatized to CodePlex and I haven't adjusted yet... I'm willing to keep going with Google Code now that you found the missing files, and hopefully I'll get adjusted soon.

Chris MorganIf you like you can come in to #portableapps on Monday and we could try and nut out any issues together.

Thanks!
I'll work on uploading files over the weekend and come in on Monday to talk over any problems. What time would you like?

Chris MorganAlso if you like you could try looking at Launchpad (Bazaar isn't quite as easy to work with as SVN, requiring a bit of setting up with PuTTY as well, but now that I'm used to it and have it set up I like it far more than SVN). Its interface seems to me to generally be a smidgeon more confusing than Google Code's though (it's just generally more technical) - though I haven't used it for administering a project at all, just as a project member.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to keep things simple for now, though. I'll keep using the Google Code web interface for uploading builds, then I'll start learning SVN and the intricacies thereof.

Thanks again for the help!

computerfreaker

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(This time I have a title! Even if meaningless.)

The Downloads FAQ covers the file deletion/uploading stuff a bit. A better description is available when you try to actually delete a file though - the "wait, are you sure you want to do this?" and "hey, this file is part of your project history!" messages are more complete. (I don't know, can you actually delete any files now? You didn't used to be able to, anyway.)

I'd be available in #portableapps now... if it weren't... for... a K-line... I dislike greatly that JavaScript spam-bot which spread its CTCP VERSION requests in #inkscape! }:-) (Note to self: next time, don't quote what a spam-bot is saying when asking if you can disable the CTCP requests in Pidgin, even if you remove link in it...)

Don't laugh, please Smile

Anyway, I would expect to be in somewhat something like 9am-10pm, minus meal breaks and reading-the-Bible-with-the-rest-of-my-family breaks and other miscellaneous breaks which happen to occur to me.

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Re:

Chris MorganThe Downloads FAQ covers the file deletion/uploading stuff a bit. A better description is available when you try to actually delete a file though - the "wait, are you sure you want to do this?" and "hey, this file is part of your project history!" messages are more complete. (I don't know, can you actually delete any files now? You didn't used to be able to, anyway.)

Thanks for that link! I think I understand more about where Google's coming from...
IIUC, you can delete some files now, just not if they've been up for too long.

Chris MorganI'd be available in #portableapps now... if it weren't... for... a K-line... I dislike greatly that JavaScript spam-bot which spread its CTCP VERSION requests in #inkscape! }:) (Note to self: next time, don't quote what a spam-bot is saying when asking if you can disable the CTCP requests in Pidgin, even if you remove link in it...)

Don't laugh, please Smile

Not laughing at all... I am surprised though. What happened, an auto-ban?

Chris MorganAnyway, I would expect to be in somewhat something like 9am-10pm, minus meal breaks and reading-the-Bible-with-the-rest-of-my-family breaks and other miscellaneous breaks which happen to occur to me.

What time zone?

Cheers!

computerfreaker

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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Phase 1 complete; time to move

I'd like to thank everyone for their help & support; agdurrette did an especially good job testing, and I'm sure he and ve4jhj will give the latest version an equally good going-over.
KidSafe has had over 500 downloads (526, to be exact), nearly a thousand visits (821), and nearly two thousand page views (1,772). The limited number of bugs and nonexistent bug reports, despite all the downloads, are a testament to the quality of your testing; good job guys!
Thanks to everyone else who helped develop or test KidSafe; it's come very far from the original app, and I could never have done it without all of you.

Phase 1 is complete: the foundations of KidSafe have been laid and development is almost done.I'm working on an "Administrator unlock" feature, which is the last feature I'll add unless someone requests something new.

Almost everything has been changed in the latest version: versioning, hosting service, and even KidSafe itself (check out the bug fixes in the latest version of KidSafe). Since the changes have been so big, and this thread has gotten so long, it's time for one more move. I've started a new thread for KidSafe at https://portableapps.com/node/22301; perhaps a mod could lock this thread to prevent confusion?

Up next is more stabilizing (to make sure nothing broke in the big moves), the final feature (Administrator unlock), and internationalization; at that point, KidSafe should at long last be ready to go.

Once again, thanks for all the support!

"The question I would like to know, is the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. All we know about it is that the Answer is Forty-two, which is a little aggravating."

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