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Paste of *.dll files in the system folder system32 of the Windows OS

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tapsklaps
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Paste of *.dll files in the system folder system32 of the Windows OS

Is it possible to paste *.dll files in the system folder system32 of the Windows OS by the usage of the following code:

[FilesMove]
xyz.dll=C:\Windows\system32

Or will this intention eventually prohibited through administrator privileges?

John T. Haller
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Nope

That requires UAC on Vista and Win7. And it's really messy. We don't permit it in released apps.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

tapsklaps
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a great pity

That's what I suspected. In connection with the use of some Adobe 8BF filter as a plugin for PhotoFiltre 7.01 it is in fact necessary in certain cases, special *.dll files insert in the system folder of the Windows OS. In particular, these are the two files MSVCRT10.DLL and plugin.dll. Fortunately, however, some Adobe 8BF filters can be used without these two files. I will discuss in brief the use of this Adobe 8BF filters in a separate report in more detail, since its use also generates registry keys. Accordingly, it is therefore also necessary to adjust the file PhotoFiltrePortable.ini.

John T. Haller
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App Folder

You sure it won't work if they are placed in the App\PhotoFiltre folder as well as the plugins folder?

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tapsklaps
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more details

I found this information about a german PhotoFiltre forum under the section titled "Hinweise zum Download benötigter DLL Dateien". The same information are reported on another website, if you click on the link |MG| DLL‘s For Graphic Programs.

tapsklaps
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search only in the system folder

Also, I suspect that these Adobe 8BF filter search only in the system folder of the Windows OS after the presence of the required *.dll files.

gluxon
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Place it in the same folder

Place it in the same folder as the executable.

tapsklaps
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matter of opinion

It may be, that the above code requires UAC on Vista and Win7. But I think it is more crucial, that on the remote machine will be leave no traces. This goal is still achieved by the above code and therefore the portability of the app is fully secured.

John T. Haller
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Not Permitted

Adding files to the local PC's Windows\system drive is not permitted in official apps. There are too many opportunities for bad things to happen. Plus, it is not necessary for properly coded apps and we do things like include the Visual C runtimes with quite a few portable apps without issue.

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tapsklaps
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partial approval

Fundamentally I agree with you, that an intervention in the system structure of the computer has extensive consequences (and so of course also negative). But one should not absolutize the whole and not draw the conclusion, generally not allow any access to the system folder. More decisive is rather, which concrete aim is connected with the intervention on the system folder. And because in the case described above, the access to the system folder is exclusively for purposes of using the Adobe 8BF filter, any negative impact can be excluded on the remote computer.

depp.jones
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Did you actually try placing

Did you actually try placing the dll-files in the app folder or do you just rely on the information in the forum entries (7 and 3 years old)? PhotoFiltre has changed a lot since than. A proper coded app should work with the dlls in its folder, too.

It's just my opinion, but I would never allow a portable app to mess with my system folder just to use some filters...

tapsklaps
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Analysis of the problem

I have also thought about the fact, that the informations on the above mentioned forum entries may be out of date. Therefore I have now started to analyze the problem self.

For this purpose I have used my VM, in which is Windows XP SP3 installed.
In a first step I have checked, which of the 5 mentioned *.dll files (msvcrt10.dll, msvcrt20.dll, msvcrt40.dll, msvcrt.dll, plugin.dll) are installed in the system folder C:\WINDOWS\system32. There are installed the following 3 files:

  • msvcrt.dll
  • msvcrt20.dll
  • msvcrt40.dll

I have now renamed this 3 files as follows:

  • msvcrt_old.dll
  • msvcrt20_old.dll
  • msvcrt40_old.dll

For security reasons I have before renaming created a system restore point with the label "Before the renaming of DLL files".

Now I have started PhotoFiltre 7.0.1 and I have used all the Adobe 8BF filters, which I have integrated in the app. Specifically, I have used so far the following filters:

  • AlphaWorks by the manufacturer Cybia - AlphaWorks.8bf
  • Kaleidoscope 2.1 by the manufacturer Mehdi - kaleidoscope2-1.8bf
  • Water Ripples, Lattice Composer, Jama 3D by the manufacturer Redfield - WaterRipples.8bf, LatticeComposer.8bf, Jama3d.8bf

All these filters have worked without use of the above mentioned 5 *.dll files. However, there are also a number of other Adobe 8BF filters. Therefore it would be first necessary to find a suitable filter, which needed one or more of the 5 *.dll files. Then I can paste all the 5 *.dll files in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre. These 5 *.dll you can download about the link called "Download@MajorGeeks" via the website MajorGeeks.com.

But there is another interesting fact. For example the file plugin.dll is distributed with Adobe products like Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, Illustrator etc. and is located in the appropriate installation folder. Here it would be important to find out, how these programs have access on this file plugin.dll. Is it necessary, that these programs before first use of this file plugin.dll must copy it in the system folder C: \WINDOWS\system32? Or is this copying not necessary? When the latter case should be applied, then it might be possible to copy these 5 *. dll files in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre and use them accordingly. Of course in this case is necessary a suitable code, which may certainly be not quite so simple.

In summary, I think it is for the sake of simplification appropriate to reconsider my recommendations in the post with the subject "partial approval" again.

depp.jones
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I think, all three C

I think, all three C libraries are present in a standard windows install at least since XP SP2 as that is the oldest OS I had on my laptop and all dlls in system32 date to 2006 (or 2004 in my i386 folder). I can't speak for Win2000 or Win98 as even the prehistoric machines at my school have been updated to XP at least. I don't think, they need to be supported any more.

The plugin.dll seems to be used by Adobe products only. I have a lot of grafx programs that use 8bf filters and no single one (apart from adobe's) has a plugin.dll in their programs folder. And it is not present in my system32 folder either.

I used a lot of different 8bf plugins but never encountered a problem because of a missing dll. But maybe that's because they have been present on my machines since 8 years now as I did not use any older OS than XP on them.

tapsklaps
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Use of the file plugin.dll

I suspect, that not only Adobe programs use the file plugin.dll. Instead, probably use specific Adobe 8BF filter this particular file. Especially for the Adobe 8BF filters on the website of Harald Heim has been described a solution. Please read the instructions under Step 2. There are described 2 possibilities. Either you obtain the file plugin.dll from one of the Adobe programs. Or you convert a FF filter with a the size of 49.152 bytes (48 K) with the app Plugin Commander.

depp.jones
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Yes, you are right. But this

Yes, you are right. But this is a very special case for very old filters created with Filter Factory. Filter Factory came with Photoshop 3.0. Most ones work with msvcrt10.dll. I had a hard time finding 48k filters that need plugin.dll and all of them were crap or at least redundant. Many links on Harrys Filter Factory page are long dead, as are the links in the "official" filter factory faq.
If one should intend to use these (as Harry wrote "mostly experimental") filters, the plugin.dll is in deed necessary. But, as with msvcrt10.dll, it should work putting both dlls in the same folder as the app's executable.

To conclude this topic: Even these special ancient filters work with photofiltre if you put these two dlls in the photofiltre folder. But you still need to install the 8bfFilter plugin to use them.
Modern 8bf filters normally don't need any of both dlls.

Btw, Harrys filters work without any additional dlls.

tapsklaps
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hypothetical assumption vs. accurate evidence

Neither I nor you know exactly how accurate the Adobe 8BF filters actually work. This is why your assumption to insert the *.dll files in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre is purely hypothetical and no exact proof. Therefore, I have detailed in my above post with the subject "Analysis of the problem" tries to explain a clear method of verification.
The only real proof would be to find an Adobe 8BF filters, which requires any *.dll files that are not available in the system folder C:\WINDOWS\system32. Then I must paste these necessary *.dll files in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre and I would see, if it works or not.

depp.jones
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Maybe you don't know, but I

Maybe you don't know, but I do, because I don't make assumptions but try out my explanations before I post them... like I told you on several occasions.
Simply try it! It is very simple to verify, but requires some testing. Delete the respective dlls from system32, run PhotoFiltre with different 8bf filters (modern ones, old 56K FilterFactory and old 48K FilterFactory ones) and add the dlls one after another to the app's folder (remember, only msvcrt10.dll and plugin.dll are needed because the others are present in WinXP). Then try again. You will see, how it works and what dll is needed for what filter type (maybe...)

Or you could read, how Filter Factory and other plugins work (just google).

Btw. I checked, which 8bf filters work or don't work with PhotoFiltre Portable under what conditions.
And - as adding Photoshop filters to Photofiltre is a complete manual process of downloading, copying etc. any special action (eg including a special dll other than msvcrtl10.dll and plugin.dll) should be taken care of by the user himself..

tapsklaps
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Offer of an Adobe 8BF Filter

Let's get right to the point. Please offer me a concret Adobe 8BF Filter (which need some *.dll files) for downloading and I will test it. Please note that I must received an error message regarding this particular filter, after I have renamed the existing 3 *.dll files (msvcrt.dll, msvcrt20.dll, msvcrt40.dll) in my system folder C:\WINDOWS\system32 according to the instructions in my post with the subject "Analysis of the problem".

depp.jones
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OK, I'll help you out with

OK, I'll help you out with this.
The dlls in question are msvcrt.dll, msvcrt20.dll, msvcrt40.dll and msvcrt10.dll, plugin.dll.
Forget about msvcrt.dll, msvcrt20.dll and msvcrt40.dll as they can be seen as standard now (they come with any WindowsXP installation). This does only lay the focus on msvcrt10.dll and plugin.dll.
As your main regard seems to be Photofiltre I think you know how to set up Photofiltre to accept Adobe 8bf filters.
Ok, we go on...

  • Step 1: Delete (or rename) any of the respective dlls in the system32 folder.
  • Step 2: Place three different filters in the plugins folder (\PortableApps\PhotofiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre\Plugins\8bfFilters\Plugins) (You can search the Plugin site for a modern one (Harry's Filters or DC filters), a Filter Factory 56K set (David Blend Filters) and a Filter Factory 48K set (Graham White Filters, filer1.zip)).
  • Step 3: Without msvcrt10.dll and plugin.dll, only Harry's and DC filters appear. With msvcrt10.dll, David Blend filters appear, too, and with plugin.dll, even Gwhite.us filters appear. It doesn't matter, if you place the dlls in system32, or in \PortableApps\PhotofiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre. It even works, if you place both dlls along PhotoFilterPortable.exe in \PortableApps\PhotofiltrePortable\.

Remember: In PhotoFiltre you don't get an error message. Filters simply don't show up in your filter plugin if a dll is missing.

There are some new plugins, that are simply not compatible with Photofiltre - Luce2 and nik Color Efex f.i. ,

The problem with Adobe's plugin.dll is, you cannot distribute it as is copyright by Adobe.

-edit1-
Forget it, I cannot get any Photoshop Filter actually do anything with th 8bf-Plugin in Photofiltre. They appear and are controllable, but don't render anything to the image. The support seems broken.

-edit2-
I tested it with XNViewPortable (where 8bf filters actually work) and all of the above is applicable (except -edit1- Wink ). Even Luce2 does not work, but nik Efex. Wink You simply can replace "Photofiltre" with "XNView" if you like.

tapsklaps
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rich informations

First of all, thanks for the very comprehensive and very useful information. As several times in the past the dispute with you has enriched me properly Smile

I've checked both the filter set by David Blend and by Gwhite.us with PhotoFiltre. In both cases was for the use of the filter the file MSVCRT10.DLL required. And in fact it does not matter whether the file MSVCRT10.DLL in the folder C:\WINDOWS\system32 or in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre was.

In connection with the testing of all these filters I could determine both in PhotoFiltrePortable and in IrfanViewPortable, that both registry key was generated and folders in AppData. Collectively I want make the following findings:

  • For the use of some Adobe 8BF filters is it necessary, that the file MSVCRT10.DLL will be pasted in the folder PhotoFiltrePortable\App\PhotoFiltre or IrfanViewPortable\App\IrfanView.
  • It's necessary to change the files PhotoFiltrePortable.ini and IrfanViewPortable.ini regarding the alterations in the registry and in AppData.

In a forthcoming post I will describe this in more detail.

Incidentally, the countless tutorials in the German forum PhotoFiltre Support.de are highly recommended. Among other things the use of many plugins is explained with comprehensive examples.

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