Friends.......!
a lot of people ask the same question or raise the same point about a program or such again and again on this forum... I have noticed a tendency of some childish (sorry but its true!!!) individuals and there hangers on, to belittle these people and smugly point out that this question has been raised before or that the forum has a search facility.... well smug types remember than not everyone is as "smart" sharp" or "clever" as you and that some people interested in the same things as you are slower, not as smart, have reading difficulties or comprehension problems and that this can make them less confident about how this forum (and life) stuff works, so please get off your high horse and just help.... thx
please don't be a smart arse just because you can... thank you
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The type of behavior you and I both have noticed, as well as others, will hurt the progress of this site. Not portable apps.
Those are the search-trolls that sometimes move to inhabit a forum. They create more unnecessary traffic than if they just answer the question. I have seen thriving forums fade from existence once the trolls began strutting around with the ops badge on their chest. Most normal people (those with a real life) don’t live in a forum. They may not know the routine and often won’t stick around long enough to learn every ritual, not after being pounced on for daring to post a word. When the fun is gone, it’s time to move on and leave the power-kiddies to police themselves.
this is what ive always thought to be right instead of "search the forums" but said anything since im not like moderator or anyone special but yea completly agree some people come here once in awhile asking for help should be greeted with courtesy! not a "search the forums" for the first post!
Slackware 12 for system
MCP (For XP and Server 2003)
Network + Certified
aim is "nycjv321" (minus quotes)
I admit that I am relatively new to Portable Apps, but what stood out to me from the very first is indeed that too often people will, instead of answering the question, will just tell the person to check the forums. One thing I also found popping up too often is people, not discerning the exact nature of the question, will just send the person straight to searching the forums, instead of taking the time to check to see if the question actually is answered in the forums already and if it was answered clearly. They automatically assume that the person understands what was said in the earier forum. All this does in create a clique of people, unwilling to help those who need it and driving people away from the forums. Remember folks, even though a topic has already been covered in a forum, the answer provided there may not be understandable to those who don't often go into the inner workings of computer software.
Timothy Forster,
a self-admitted newbie to PortableApps.com
Timothy Forster
For starters, it is important to realize that with open source software, your primary support person is *YOU*. That's right. You are responsible for supporting yourself. It's your job to analyze the problem, search through the documentation or frequently asked questions, search the project's site and search Google for an answer. No one is getting paid to support you. And it's no one's job to support you.
When you post a question here, the very first thing you see on the post a new topic page is: "The forums allow all registered users to post about topics related to portable apps. Please be sure to read the Forum Guidelines (updated December 9, 2006) before posting. Please remember to search before asking a question and that, as with most community sites, self-promotional posting is prohibited. By posting a topic, you are agreeing to be bound by all forum guidelines."
Now, granted, many newbies don't understand how open source works or how most support forums work and don't understand that it's their job to fix whatever is wrong. And, there have been some people who have responded a bit harshly. (Sometimes *WAY* too harshly.) But, telling the person to search first in the future *IS* what the new user should be told. But, either an answer or a link to the answer to their question in another post should also be provided. That way, when someone else searches and happens to find this duplicate question, they still wind up at the answer they were seeking. And, all of this should be done without any sarcasm, snarkiness or bad attitude. Always assume the new user is a newbie and simply doesn't yet understand how this all works.
That said, it is the support side of things that has actually killed some projects and turned some developers off of open source. For some reason, there will always be users who feel they are entitled to an answer. Or a bug fix. Or a new feature. Or hours and hours of the developers' unpaid time. Simply because they are using the software. There isn't much you can do about this attitude as some people simply are that inconsiderate and selfish and feel that their own time is more valuable than yours as the developer/forum moderator.
It's due to people like that that some of the largest open source projects on SourceForge have development teams that don't provide support or answers in their forums and bug reports anymore. They're simply burned out and can't deal with it. Some developers simply give up and quit developing. And, usually, just before this happens, they wind up being mean to some newbie who asks the same exact question that's been answered 10 times in the forums and is listed right in the support documents. Not because they're upset and frustrated with that particular user... but because they're simply so frustrated with the whole thing.
So, while you, as a newbie, are asking for responders to cut you some slack. You also need to realize where your own responsibilities lie (support thyself) and remember that the developers and moderators are only human. They're unpaid volunteers that are here helping out simply because they want to.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I understand where the OP was coming from, but you do need to search the forums first. It says so in the Forum Guidelines which everyone is expected to read first.
As John said, we are all volunteers here. If we wanted to (which we don't) we could just all leave the forums.
Note to forum regulars: If you do tell a person to search, give them a quick-link so that they can find the answer quickly.
----
Ryan McCue
Person 1: Oh my god. You will never believe what just happened.
Person 2: What?
Person 1: I can't remember, I've forgotten.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
I only refer to myself as a newbie to this particular site, mainly because I just registered! I never meant it to sound like I was new to open source, that I didn't know that I had to "support myself", or that I was asking for some slack to be cut, especially for myself! I just was noting that the way people were automatically sending people back to the searches, when their particular problem isn't, nor ever was, in the forums, seemed to be rather harsh and unfriendly, and noting what that would be like to people who WERE new to open source. When I was new to it and had a problem with PFF, I searched the forums as instructed. I found several instances of people posing a question that sounded similar to what was wacked with my setup. Granted, this did help me solve my situation, but the way people were responding to others' questions kept me from ever wanting to register to this site, let alone ask a question.
You all have my sincere apologies for the poor wording of my earier post. I was in a hurry and didn't proofread it at all.
Timothy Forster
A self-admitted newbie to PortableApps.com
Timothy Forster
Actually, my response wasn't directed personally at you as I figured you may have some understanding. I was simply addressing the issue in general. And, as I stated, best practice to respond to a newbie is to (1) tell them how they should work to find the solutions in the future in a non-sarcastic friendly way and (2) provide the answer directly in the response or a link to the answer in another thread so that they get their answer and so that others who search and find the thread will also find the answer. As I also said, I consider it to be bad form to be sarcastic or nasty when doing this... but sometimes, that may happen unintentionally due to the sheer frustration.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Hey, you do this for free. You have NO need to explain yourself. It's us who use the site and err that should explain ourselves. I for one can't blame you at all for the occational effects of frustration in your posts.
On a side note, isn't there some way to automate the above practice? Perhaps as some sort of search routine that searches the forums before actual posting takes place? I admit I don't know much about HTML, but I'd think it'd be possible. Would it work, and would it be difficult to do?
Timothy Forster
Timothy Forster
I'm working on an FAQ.
Vintage!
I see both sides of the coin here, but this is the only forum I've ever been to that all I see is, search this, search that, or snotty remarks to new posters. In part what is missing is a professional faq link in the above menu, Drupal plugin.
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