As I've hinted at in-forum and told several people offline, the site has gotten far more popular and in a much shorter timeframe than expected... causing several performance issues with the current host. That's why it's been offline a couple times in the last week. And, that's actually one of the reasons you haven't seen releases of Portable Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, ClamWin, GIMP, and why VLC and Miranda haven't been stuck on the main page. A single new release with a spike in traffic would kill the site/hosting account. That's also why setting up the more community-participation aspects of the site has been dragging.
Well, I've just about settled on a new dedicated server at a new host. We'll have our own box and a bit more freedom in what we can do with the site.
On that note, I'd like to start thinking now about what would be of the most benefit to the community. With the new box/account comes greater monthly bandwidth (the site is maxed out now), so PortableApps.com can start doing things like hosting some of the smaller projects from the start here. (For any who didn't know, all downloads of apps are hosted on SourceForge for free, since they are open source... if they hadn't been, my hosting bill would have been $23,000 last year).
So, here are some of the ideas I've been toying with:
Downloads - Setting up a downloads area for smaller projects and utilities in their alpha stage before moving them into a more-prominent release on the PortableApps SourceForge project
Project Pages - New projects will get their own project page in the upcoming Development section so people can easily get information and track new releases without watching the forums. Once the project gets to release status, it can be moved right into the Portable Apps directory.
Development Blogs - One of the reasons I picked Drupal from the beginning was so that I could setup other developers on-site with their own blogs hosted right here. You can post about your projects and portable apps stuff in general and anyone interested can subscribe to your own RSS feed. Bigger announcements and posts will be promoted right to the homepage. You'll even get your own URL (portableapps.com/developername).
Wiki - I'm not sure if it will be development-specific or encompass all portable apps info... probably the latter... but I was thinking about setting up a Wiki so that everyone can help contribute to a full set of knowledge around making apps portable, living portable, etc.
Professional Directory - As this concept grows, there will be more companies and software projects that may want assistance with making their apps portable. As some of the developers here gain experience, it might be worth thinking about taking on a few open source apps to build a reputation and then advertising yourself to get a little commercial consulting work.
Backups / Tracking - I'm planning on adding in the ability for people to backup their data bits from their keys onto the server (eventually). More immediately, I'm going to build a service so that you can track your key's use. That way, if your key is lost or stolen and someone else uses it, you'll see what IP it was used from. (This is still in the planning stages and only a bit of code is done, so this would be another area for someone to get involved)
New Forum Features - I'll be adding in the ability to see when someone joined, how many posts they've made and introduce the concept of membership levels when people have made a certain number of posts. The fact that we're maxing out resources on our current host has prevented me from implementing this as it adds several DB calls to the forum pages.
Any other ideas are more than welcome as I can finally start turning this site into what I'd originally envisioned rather than its current 1/2 completed state. Any thoughts on any of the above or suggestions for additional services are greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
John
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John, I'm very glad you're intending to push Drupal and this site to their true potentials. I'm assuming you've got some Drupal experience already, but if you want a hand then I'm happy to help.
Project pages and issue tracking would be a huge step forward for the many developers that seem interested in the whole "make everything portable" project. In my opinion, the directory wouldn't be needed by most users. I'm guessing your list of tasks/plans is in that order on purpose. If so - I completely agree with it.
Hopefully this will prevent the developers that started here and becoming too fragmented (i.e. portasoft, the NSIS dev team etc). I think PortableApps.com is a suitable home for everyone.
The developers at Portasoft have not Framgmented from PortableApps.com as you stated. We stay very much commited to John's site, ideas, ideals and the protableapps community. The Portasoft Developmnet team is meeting place for those devleopers, that wish to develop applications under the Portasoft Development team name and moniker. It is a way for us to bring together ideas and work mutually on projects.
Everyone of our projects is posted here as well as on the portasoft.org website as this is the where most of us have begun and will continue to be. When John has the features above implemted, we will probably be linking his development projects with ours to bring the community together.
The Portasoft Development team is NOT a offshoot, standalone team of former portable apps developers, as you make it sound, we are just a conglomerate of interested developers pooling our knowledge to further the portable comunity.
***********************************
Deuce {The Core}
"Portable Software: Just the beginning..."
Deuce
Portable Software: Just the beginning.
I'm not denying you the option of creating your own groups - I simply think that keeping everything on one site (while user and developer numbers are still low) is more effective.
See John's comment when the NSIS dev team forums were set up
I have to admit I was a bit disappointed when you guys formed the group and setup the website. It does feel like an offshoot/split. It essentially setup the same set of forums I have here on another site and moved some development discussion from here to there. Couple that with posts along the lines of "head to PortaSoft" when someone does something as simple as suggest an app here, and you can understand my uneasiness.
The main point of this site was to have a single location to pool the knowledge of portable apps and portable apps development. Admittedly, I've been slow to get some of these other features like project pages and downloads off the ground due to a number of factors (illness, busy with my paying work, death of my grandmother, trying to keep the site from crashing due to a maxed out hosting account) but I had hoped we could keep things together for the good of the community and for what we can accomplish for the world (idealistic, perhaps, but I can see some amazing possibilities).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
A reason that I thought it was good to develop software for PortaSoft was to take some of the portable apps demand off of John. As he said, he has other things to do, so I thought that it would be helpful to develop smaller things that people wanted so he could work on the bigger stuff.
-Justin
This site isn't just about the apps that I've done. It's a site for everyone to create apps. Hence the upcoming Development section, developer blogs, etc.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I believe in this site and the commuity that grew and continues to grow from it, I spend alot of time floating through these forums and helping where I can. I know we did not mean anything by moving our development to Portasoft and we are still going to use the development sections. I personaly will find it great to have both sites working together as one community.
However, I also do not think that one site should be the center be all, using two can share the load of the bandwith and both can be parts of the other, interwining the community togther. We are fully aware of Poratapps, if you look through the portasoft site, portableapps.com is mentioned everywhere. As we are based on ideas and beliefs from here that you and the others gave us. That is a great acheivement for you. You are giving ideas to people of the world that extends the community beyonds this server's borders.
I am sorry if I in some way disappointed you. It was never meant to be that way. I am a part of portasoft due to my ideals and convictions and nothing that this site or you personaly had done.
Well, let's bring the community together, PoratbleApps and Portasoft can be a great team if it is allowed to be.
PS: I plan on using every bit of the new sections of this site to its fullest. I have ideas about both and plan to work with both. Let us see what the furture holds, Shall we? As my Signature says:
"Portable Software: Just the beginning..."
***********************************
Deuce {The Core}
"Portable Software: Just the beginning..."
Deuce
Portable Software: Just the beginning.
Having another site is fine. Heck, there are multiple portable app sites already that server slightly different purposes. But PortaSoft.org is essentially trying to serve much the same purpose as PortableApps.com is. Which is fine, of course. You guys are free to setup a site to do whatever you'd like.
What isn't fine, though, is attempting to recruit PortableApps.com forum participants as members of your own site. This site does not allow self promotion. So, while it would be appropriate to post about GPL-ed releases you guys do or to post coding snippets with questions related to apps you are creating, it is not appropriate to recruit members away from here to become members of PortaSoft.org.
PortableApps.com will be moving forward with its development resources as planned and you are all welcome to be as much a part of that as you would like and release software under the PortableApps.com moniker. You're also encouraged to use the development kits being released (and the launchers for the released apps) for your own apps on any site provided proper credit is given and the GPL is abided by.
Regards,
John
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Hi John,
The reason I created PortaSoft was originally to host my own projects (the first version was focussed on my own apps, which I haven't had time to work on lately). When "rmccue" offered to help me out with my projects, I decided that we may as well keep from having three different places that developers had to check -- your site, my site, and the "NSIS dev team" at cubegames.
I had hoped that our two sites could be like ying and yang. Since your site has been suffering from digg/dott attacks, and because it doesn't yet have developer blogs or admin access for developers, I thought I could fill the need, and give developers an arena to code and chat without bothering the ordinary portable app-ers who take up the majority of your site's forum.
As far as recruiting members from your site, I hadn't intended for the sites to compete. If there's a portable application which you haven't had time to make, but we have, I see no problem in suggesting that a user here have a look -- PortaSoft is by no means so large that its users have no reason to continue checking yours out.
The other administrators of PortaSoft also agree that we shouldn't be fighting. Deuce said, "I don't see why it matters where we develop or store the files. It should not be a concern. What should matter is are we growing the community as a whole. We are a team, us here and those there, and it should not matter where we release or talk or develop." I think that just about says it all.
I hope no offense is taken on either side.
Regards,
~nm35
» PortaSoft -- Portable Application Development
» Personal Space -- Under Construction
All types of users are needed to make this site successful: users, developers, designers and maybe one or two trolls to annoy us into getting more done.
Seriously though, there's already a couple of threads around here that say "check out PortaSoft and we might be able to help". Really it should be saying "here's your answer...".
I won't jump to any conclusions because I don't know how much you spoke to John about it before setting up a similar website.
I don't know about the "check out portasoft" threads, because I didn't ask for them -- I gave other users here admin access, and they are the ones spreading the site.
I didn't talk to John, because I didn't think it would make a difference -- it's just a development site, and if you read the "welcome" notice on the front page, you'll see it's not intended to replace PortableApps.com.
And the only reason I created PortaSoft was to let developers have admin access, since John hasn't set up anything like that yet.
~nm35
» PortaSoft -- Portable Application Development
» Personal Space -- Under Construction
John I think all of those ideas are well thought and should be implemted as the system determines. I believe the community will benefit from all of these ideas and it will bring together a whole new world of developers and users. Good work!
***********************************
Deuce {The Core}
"Portable Software: Just the beginning..."
Deuce
Portable Software: Just the beginning.
A temporary idea, although probably impractical:
Until dedicated hosting can be found, why dont you put the new releases up on sourceforge and announce it, so those of us who know how can get em early?
Cant wait for PTB1.5 Final lol, plus ClamWin and VLC., or try something like FileFront, FileFactory, or MegaUpload., with a discreet forum announcement and link to at least slow the stampede of traffic. If this is impractical, I'm sorry. I don't know to much about hosting. On second thought, don't make an announcement. Send links to sourceforge or Upload sites like I've said, throught the mailing list, with an explanation about bandwidth issues. Though thats probably impractical, too. Oh, well, just throwing out ideas.
I'm no coder and can't really help any other way (although I have done TONS of word of mouth advertising of this site. Many of my friends, family, and a few of my Instructors at my college use you're apps John, along with some of the others posted by members.
Sorry for the rambling post, it's midterm break and I'm running on very little sleep.
Regards,
Jacoby
---
Posted in Mozilla PowerSkunk. Other Browsers run in fear!
(Brought to you by Firesomething.)
I considered doing a "limited" release, but things spread VERY quickly online. Blogs, forums, etc. And sooner or later it winds up Dugg or Slashdotted.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Hi John
Can you email me please:) After many emails to many email addresses (well,2) I still cant get you:)
mat at yadabyte.com
Thanks very much:)
Mat Ripley
As I have explained, I still have a huge backlog of email that I'm working through from last month. I currently have 272 emails requiring my attention. Some personal. Some paying clients. Some portable apps stuff. So, you'll simply have to wait your turn. And please don't send me duplicate emails... it only compounds the problem.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
wowzers:)
I think we're on a cusp of something great here. This plan is really terrific. These concepts are more than I expected but exactly what I'd hoped. Let's keep the community division to a minimum, guys, and make this happen. Unite and conquer, and all that.
Dear All,
I have tried to stay out of this argument as long as possible however it now seems impossible, so here we go.
Firstly I would like to explain so of the reasons that I personally as a developer moved to PortaSoft.
I did not know when the developer sections of PortableApps was coming, it has been promised for a long time, and I realise that it isn't your fault John, but I feel that I became a bit restless waiting. I also feel that I have not received much developer help from you, John. For example I have asked for your sync code at least three times since October last year and you seem to have just ignored them. Finally I felt that I needed somewhere a little less 'cluttered' than PortableApps to develop. What I mean by this is that there are so many users on PortableApps it can be hard to keep a conversation running.
I can also see your point of view John; after all we (PortaSoft) have not always posted about our new releases and have sometimes been a bit quick to link to PortaSoft. Sometimes this has been justified, like when someone wants a custom launcher, but sometimes we could have just given the answer.
However I think that we (the members of PortaSoft) have been important in keeping the site running whilst you have been away and I am therefore worried that you are alienating the very people that often answer user’s questions first. This has led me to the opinion that if the situation does not improve, for example if there is not more co-operation between both groups, I will no longer continue my role as a portable apps developer on BOTH sites and release Libertà on my own. This is because I feel that we need to stand united, with PortableApps for end users and PortaSoft for developers. So my fate is in your hands.
Regards
Steve Lamerton
A few thoughts...
Wikis sound great, for all information, and they may help heal some rifts by uniting efforts.
After all, what could be better for developers than a real-time idea of user demands? And what could be better for users than a real-time wiki of app development?
To Steve and other disillusioned community members, I would like to say (with all the respect in the world, "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" and all that) it wouldn't help to flee the site(s) due to personal annoyances.
Users are more likely to appreciate ANY one site than they are to hunt apps from 3 or more sites. If this site offers more to developers, I hope you stay, and I hope more arrive. If you feel sidelined or ignored, I hope the new site will allow motivated people such as yourself to be leaders, with centralised access to content they require.
A concern though - to a commercial development house, portable might mean "easier to pirate" for obvious reasons. I hope any such advances avoid having portable apps contact a license server, which in itself removes some of the anonymity from using your apps on any random machine...
All developers mainly live here and use PortaSoft for file hosting.
----
R McCue
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Basically I was saying we need to stop the fighting or I will leave as I don't think it helps anyone.
Yours
Steve Lamerton
Developer Profile Sync & PortaLog
Can I ask how I am disillusioned? I am merely saying that I don't think that this arguing helps anyone and as it dosent seem to be stopping I'm inclined to leave.
Yours
Steve Lamerton
Developer Profile Sync & PortaLog
I think everyone is being a little too confrontational about what's happening here. PortaSoft fills in a gap which PortableApps doesn't currently cater for, which is a good thing. Now John is letting us all know that he wants to fill that gap here in a professional way, which is a great thing.
Rather than make remarks about PortableApps not being good enough for your personal needs, you can help John by offering suggestions and support. For example: don't call this site cluttered, instead think of a way for it to be less so.
I'm sure John (among others) appreciates the positive comments in this thread offering help and hosting solutions.
Lets just get something straight here Thox. I believe that it was your post in the beginning of the thread that inflamed this whole (in my opinion, unneeded) controversy. If it hadn't been for that cute little "fragmented" comment, we might never have had this discussion. So I ask you: Who overreacted first, Thox or the developers?
-Justin
Fact: at least 2 sites have been set up duplicating the aims of this site. Opinion: we would be more productive using one website.
What exactly have I overreacted to?
See: Tone Misinterpreted In Half Of All Emails [Techdirt.com].
This entire controversy is what you have overreacted to. Saying that there should only be one site (an opinion, yes I know) and saying we are fragmented when we are just trying to have our own place to do things away from the masses of people that now use the site (a good thing for sure, but not if you want to throw ideas around with other developers). Finally, at least have to courage to admit that it was you who posted the comment that ignited (though possibly not started) this argument.
-Justin
Sorry, are you saying that my comment was an overreaction to the responses that came after it?
But I do like the backwards text. The first post was an overreaction to the issue. Also, I want this to end, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
-Justin
I did say exactly why, I you read it I think it is cluttered as there are lots of end users on the site, the obvious way to fix this is to have a site mainly for developers, which is what has been done. There is no way to declutter it without getting rid of the end users, with are the main audience of this site.
Yours
Steve Lamerton
P.S. I really hope that one day we can look back at this thread and laugh over it
End users need to communicate with developers, so simply creating a new website is just delaying the problem - not fixing it.
If you have concerns about clutter on this site then the best approach would be to start a thread about it. That way you can explain what exactly the problem is. e.g. can you not find threads you're looking for? are the categories not clear enough? does the site need a site map page? etc.
I know that end users need to talk to developers, however what I was talking about was inter-developer chat, which is why PortaSoft is good as it is only developers. When I said clutter I didnt mean that the site design/layout was bad just that there are lots of groups trying to talk at once. I guess what I think is the main problem is the fact that there seem to be a lot of app requests in the Portable App Development folder, rather than in the Request Apps folder.
Yours
Steve Lamerton
Developer Profile Sync & PortaLog
This is from the front page of the PortaSoft site:
Welcome to PortaSoft!
PortaSoft is home to various portability projects -- launchers, applications designed to be portable, and the like.
Basically, it's a development website, not intended to replace PortableApps.com. This way, the developers can have an all-in-one system for project help/development/hosting, without resorting to ad-filled free file hosts and bulletin boards -- and they can do things the way they want to.
We hope you like it!
~nm35
Enough said, now let's end this please.
-Justin
Ditto (any excuse
)
Yours
Steve Lamerton
Developer Profile Sync & PortaLog
You and your dittos!!
And now I can't say it, now can I. Oh well...
Me too.
~nm35
» PortaSoft -- Portable Application Development
» Personal Space -- Blog, Projects, Etc...