This as always been a problem. Someone creates an account and creates a thread saying: "Gimme this. How do I do that?".
This is a very discussed topic, meanwhile, nobody has come to a solution about this. I think we should create a definitive solution, not just for the Request Apps Forum, but for other Forums too.
We should reduce the amount of commonly repeated threads significantly!
But for that, we need a lot of work and the help from everybody. And we should have in mind that we shouldn't have privileges differences between the new users and the regular users.
Anyway, below there are simply some of the options that could reduce the amount of commonly repeated threads on this forum. These ideas could be improved, and more ideas added. Don't forget to add your ideas and consider the existing ideas.
This is a team work. We must improve the forum without damaging the new users. And we must do it now!
______________________________
Ideas
- The creation of some kind of "dumb threads moderators". With the only extra ability of tagging/untagging a post as a "commonly repeated thread".
- We should have some kind of simplified FAQ. Something that deals with the most simple users problems. Beyond that we should also stand out the support pages for each app.
- Having the ability of, if the first time entering to a forum ever, showing some really simplified forum guidelines.
- (request apps forum only) having a special form for creating that type of thread instead of the normal form. That way we could create some kind of "filter" techniques and have some simplified info on the beguinning.
Example:
Submit Request Apps Forum Topic (info about guidelines goes here) App To Portabilize: _________________________ Version (Opcional): _________________________ Website: _________________________ License: (dropdown menu with some default licenses and a "Other" option) Details: _________________________ Why to portabilize?: _________________________
This would only be a custom form that would create a normal thread with the info inserted +hidden comments for the filtering by some kind of script. That way there could be a simplified forum search for checking if the app already exists, telling from the beginning if the license allows the portabilization...
FAQ ideas:
Account Created Page FAQ:
Q. I want xyz app. Is it possible? A. It depends on the license and others. Read the FAQ for more info. Q. How do I do this/that? A. See the App's FAQ for more info. Q. This/that doesn't work. A. Check if the problem you're having is on the FAQ.
Other FAQs in the Wiki (link). Please create an account there and give your ideas.
Update: The FAQ is almost complete. Please log-in and give your opinion about what's missing and what shouldn't be there on this thread.
Visit the Community page
Join our forums
Subscribe to our email newsletter
Subscribe with RSS
Follow us on Facebook
Follow us on LinkedIn
Follow us on Twitter
Follow us on Mastodon
Follow us on BlueSky
Thumbs up from me!
I'm willing to write/help writing a FAQ if i'm allowed to do so. It could be created as a PDF or a separate post could be created with all the FAQ in it.
Another idea: when we have a FAQ it could be a possibility to link new users to it when they first sign up. Something like: "Congratulations! You are now registered! Please take a look at our FAQ section here before you post any requests."
Optimism is a moral duty - Karl R. Popper
I like your idea, and, beyond that, some variants of that FAQ could appear when the user enters for the first time on a forum.
Blue is everything.
Yeah that would be nice although i don't know if that's easy to implement.
I like the idea of the special form for the request forum!
It would allow Moderators to quickly "scan" the request and delete or lock threads that were discussed before so the forum gets somewhat "filtered" instead of all those double posts.
Optimism is a moral duty - Karl R. Popper
hells yah! this is a great idea. (And yes i knwo i have had my fair share)
Zoop
What do you think John? You have plenty of volunteers.
Release Team Member
Agreed- and I'm willing to help.
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
If John allows, I think we could start creating a small FAQ (remember, the new user doesn't have patience for reading big stuff) from the existing info on a new thread. But before I'd like to receive the "OK" from, at least, a forum admin before starting.
Blue is everything.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to start a new thread for that. It'll probably get cluttered anyway. If you want you can add me to your msn and we could start to make one. my msn: pitjej(at)hotmail(dot)com
Optimism is a moral duty - Karl R. Popper
At this time of the championship, we still aren't ready for a FAQ. We first have to decide what is necessary and what's not. Then we can start the 2nd part of actually doing something.
And I still haven't seen any moderator giving and opinion about the idea and saying if it could be made or not.
Blue is everything.
I think what you are looking for is a voting system.
I have seen this at zdnet and cnet blogs.
I am not sure if drupal can do this or not.
Life is about the journey not the destination!
The Kazoo Spartan
I know drupal has a form module, but the info is submitted to the admin. I'm sure with a little tweaking it could be created as a node.
Is there more ideas? Won't there be more suggestions? Almost nobody said anything. I'd like to improve these ideas, but if it is everything ok, then maybe we should ask Ryan to create a FAQ page on his wiki that is available to edit by everyone.
But I'd like to get everything set up before this, for example, seeing which FAQ will be created and which will be updated, updating the draft of the form...
Anyone?
Blue is everything.
that the lack of suggestions means you did a good job on your own.
It's hard to improve on something done well when the big boss hasn't given his word.
Release Team Member
The idea as you stated it is good imo. Additional improvements/suggestions can be made later. If the page is made then we can start editing it.
Optimism is a moral duty - Karl R. Popper
What we can do is create an additional general FAQ in the forums within the General Forum. When another of these questions comes up, someone can craft a well-written response and then add a note to the end nominating it for the FAQ. Then Ryan, Marko or myself can add it in. When the question comes up again, just link to the FAQ. And we'll add a link to it from the post a new topic page.
Be forwarned, though, most users that ask these so-called 'dumb' questions will not read the FAQ or support page. No matter how many times you tell them to. No matter how prominent the link to the FAQ and support page. It's just part of the support equation. I've done tech support for big companies and it works the same way.
If having to respond to these questions really annoys you and causes you to be rude to a new user, please refrain entirely from responding at all to these types of posts.
Remember, as Joel says:
1. Users don't have the manual, and if they did, they wouldn't read it.
2. In fact, users can't read anything, and if they could, they wouldn't want to.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
John Said,
"If having to respond to these questions really annoys you and causes you to be rude to a new user, please refrain entirely from responding at all to these types of posts"
Amen, amen, amen
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
this forum is starting to be overrun by Joel, but then that's probably a good thing!
cant we have it pop up before they try write a message in the forum...
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
pop-ups are annoying, may scare users away, and are typically closed just as quickly as they open themselves.
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
what i meant was...just before they can edit they get redirected to a page that will have the faq.
also rather than answering i also think that we should just put a link to the faq.
that way they know that they have to follow a certain format...rather than giving them the idea that we have rules but we will sort of ignore them.
For Ex
while the second reply is helpful...it does not enforce the fact that there are rules that need to be followed. So even though it was a nice thing to do, it will give the poster the idea that there are rules but people will ignore them.
~regards
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
A better reply would be:
Welcome to PortableApps.com, RandomUsername.
This is addressed in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ): 3. Can you make application X portable?.
If you have additional questions, please take a look through the FAQ, support pages or even try the search feature as you'll probably find your answer quicker. Thanks.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Yes, a Much better reply,
friendly, polite, welcoming as well as suggestive.
"We have rules..." sounds, well, shitty
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
but i was in a sort of a rush...trying to catch the bus it left...and i wanted to get that comment in.
But what john said was along the lines of what i was trying 2 go for. and yes it is a better reply. my point was that if we as a group say to a post like that"did u search?" and then go on to give the answer it defeats the purpose of asking them to search or check the faq
to quote from someone's signature
Please don't Post a "Search the Posts First" Post without First Posting the Solution YOU found by Searching
that is what we want to avoid
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
"sorry about the lack of politness in my examples...trying to catch the bus...nd i wanted to get that comment in"
No problem, I know the feeling
When I rush post I usually have a ton of spelling, grammar, and usage errors which I then have to come back to fix.
"that if we as a group say to a post like that"did u search?"
My problem is that you should never say that. If the person did search, obviously they did not find the answer. To say "did you search?" and not provide an example of how searching would have helped, (which obviously you did or how would you know it would have helped), is just poor citizenship.
I say this in the light that "Did you search?" is sometimes the best a person gets. I've seen, not that long ago, a "Did you search the Posts post" that was so rude "I" wanted to reply with a "Go FCUK YOURSELF AS.. HOLE".
You may not be aware of this but this group has a rep, and it's not a good one.
My signature was created in response to the terrible behavior I was witnessing at the time I created it. By responding to a posters question with a search answer after he has been abused by an uberPro I show him/her how they could have found an answer. My Signature tells him that he was not the first victim and tells the abuser that some of don't approve of this kind of behavior.
John Said,
"If having to respond to these questions really annoys you and causes you to be rude to a new user, please refrain entirely from responding at all to these types of posts"
and I agree with him. In fact I would take a "please refrain" from John as one step short of a Command!
After we are done the "Dealing with "dumb" Newbie" FAQ or whatever we call it, we should start on the "Dealing with "dumb" Oldies" Rules of Behavior FAQ
Respectfully,
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
when i first joined i also got the "did u search?" question that was really rude. I am not saying that we have to be rude about it...but what i am saying is that we have to give a gentle reminder that they should search. If it is a first timer show some articles you found by searching. I agree that sometimes that the did u search may be a little rude...(i may hav done it myself), so we should be a little nicer about it. However if we just keep giving answers we will never get the fact across that you are supposed to search first.
After we are done the "Dealing with "dumb" Newbie" FAQ or whatever we call it, we should start on the "Dealing with "dumb" Oldies" Rules of Behavior FAQ
or we should hope that the "oldies" can suddenly get nicer.
You may not be aware of this but this group has a rep, and it's not a good one.
i actually was not, however most of the posts are polite and usually do not put anyone down
~regards
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
I think the important things to note, after everything else:
1. John has stated quite clearly in this thread/node that he does not want people to reply to posts if they can't do it without being rude.
https://portableapps.com/node/10760#comment-60960
2. He has given an example of a proper reply which we should all use as a model.
https://portableapps.com/node/10760#comment-60979
These issues are important to Him.
3. Do we want to be PortableApps.com[mercial], with MS type $upport
or Do we want to be PortableApps.com[munity], with Community Support
Without naming names Is the person who "greeted" into this community still here?
Are you friends now?
Has their behavior improved?
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
You're right. But isn't it possible to have some 2 or 3 questions FAQ on the created account page?
Simplicity. The objective is to make the user to read it. So a 2 or 3 question FAQ like:
Q. I want xyz app. Is it possible?
A. It depends on the license. Read the FAQ for more info.
Q. How do I do this/that?
A. See the App's FAQ for more info.
Q. This/that doesn't work.
A. Check if the problem you're having is on the FAQ.
on the account created page would help the users because it is small and easy on the eyes. Very few users would read it anyway, but it doesn't harm to try.
Blue is everything.
Along the same lines, it might also be interesting or useful to have the 3 or 4 most frequently asked questions (or accessed FAQ entries) listed somewhere prominent, perhaps the account creation page, partially to provide a "stumble across it" answer to others with that question, but also to call attention to the range of answers available in the forums or FAQ.
MC
I said something similar. I said to put it on the page the user gets when an account is created, you say to put it on the page for creating an account.
Blue is everything.
So what would it take to get an FAQ going? Taking John away from getting the platform ready for beta testing doesn't sound like a good use of resources.
Ryan has set up a Wiki that has a start at some of this. I think it would get more entries written if it were linked to, but it's pretty much unofficial at this point (I think that's the case, though I haven't logged in recently).
Linking to the FAQ would be a good way to handle a lot of the questions, plus the question (with its pointer to the FAQ) would get into the search system. So the few people who try to search might have a better chance of finding it.
I agree that we have to expect a lot of people to not search or use the FAQ to start with. Part of the problem is that they expect it to be a waste of time; it is on many other sites. While we want to encourage them to search (and report if the search fails, so we can fix it) we need to do something that will get them a good answer, one that will be a positive addition to the search engine rather than a duplicate of the question with no answer. Too many of those in the system and it will be even harder to find a good answer by searching.
MC
So what would it take to get an FAQ going? Taking John away from getting the platform ready for beta testing doesn't sound like a good use of resources.
NOOOOO!!! We create the FAQ. When everybody think it is done, we ask for John to create a page with the new FAQ(s).
Also, I already requested Ryan on the other thread to create a FAQ page on his wiki that everyone can access and modify (without creating accounts). Now we have to wait for Ryan's answer. Meanwhile we give the FAQ ideas on this page and go creating everything.
Blue is everything.
http://cubegames.net/development/faq
You know, you could have just created it yourselves
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
John? Work? Platform? Resources? Book?
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
You should try sitting in IRC support rooms. Classic example with WordPress:
"user: WordPress isn't working, what do I do? [URL here]"
"rmccue: Erm, you don't have PHP installed"
Nice, I guess I've started the whole Joel thing
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Then Ryan, Marko or myself can add it in.
I'm always here eh.
Always
Still awaiting a reply to that mod e-mail.
If it's gonna be a while before I get a splash screen, or an app officially release, at least let me help in the forums.
Thanks.
Should I let Firefox Portable update itself to "some random version"?
At the moment, no. This is due to Bug 406335 which was introduced sometime within the updates to the 2.0 branch of Firefox itself. The Mozilla Software Updater no longer correctly updates secondary, standalone and portable versions of Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. The bug is discussed in more detail in this forum topic about the issue.
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
So, start adding questions!
I've added a bit of content, just to show some basic syntax, delete that.Follow the Formatting Syntax guide (linked from the edit page) and get started!Edit: I've added powerjuce's question, as it was the first I saw
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Hey Ryan, under the PortableApps.com FAQ section, it should say:
'We're currently working on a FAQ for users over here.'
instead of:
'We're currently working on an FAQ for users over here.'
Since F is a letter that starts with a consonant (fffak).
The point is mute, since my server is down.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
How about moot?
http://definr.com/moot
~Lurk~
Sorry to disappear like that. My computers Net died. I still don't have net but you're doing a great job. I will try to help, but I think there is a "curse of FAQ"!!! Be afraid, be very afraid!!!
Blue is everything.
Everyone needs to learn how to to put stupid people "on ignore" (example: I have yet to see a certain forum member make an intelligent post) and to ignore dumb threads. It's quite easy once you get the hang of it.
The only stupid posts I respond to are people requesting the impossible or totally ignorant...like asking for Samba to be made portable so they can use it on Windows. Hello!? That shows a total lack of anything approaching a clue on what they just typed.
Having been the only user/moderator of the ClarkConnect firewall forums, you learn to ignore "dumb posts"...that is until stupid people bump their own stupid posts because they're being ignored.
Take a look at their forum rules for some outside input:
Rule #1: Search the forums (STF) before posting your question.
Rule #2: No flaming.
Rule #3: No sarcasm about newbiness.
Rule #4: No replying to a post that makes you see red.
Rule #5: Check the documentation for tips and tricks.
Cancer Survivors -- Remember the fight, celebrate the victory!
Help control the rugrat population -- have yourself spayed or neutered!
Rule #4: No replying to a post that makes you see red.
lol
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
"Everyone needs to learn how to to put stupid people "on ignore"
"Rule #2: No flaming"
"Rule #3: No sarcasm about newbiness"
While I'm sure that technically calling people "stupid" is not sarcasm I would guess that it violates the spirit of the rules.
Referring to people as stupid, dumb, ignorant, etc ... is not good form in general, and certainly not welcoming to "newcomers" [I'm beginning to wonder if even the word "newbie" should be avoided].
Even when discussing these issues perhaps we should start by using gentler language.
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
The FAQ is great. But the ideas aren't all there. That isn't only for the general FAQ. If you have an idea for an frequently asked question about other app that FFP (but for FFP is fine too), then go there and show it.
Blue is everything.
There are going BIG updates on the FAQ. Right now there are a lot more questions than when we started it. I think that it is close to be done, but, as John says, “It's done when it's done!™”. So I think that people should start giving their opinion about the FAQ for improvement. We may be on the FINAL stage (maybe)!
Blue is everything.
Is there a way of giving opinions on the content?
Or can I just change it?
Cause I think in the "Can you make [name] portable?" section, isnt 3) included in 2)?
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
No, there it is not possible to leave comments, at least is what it seems. Maybe a comments section on the bottom could be added.
section 3 is about the app to be free to use, and many apps are opensource and need to be payed to be used.
Ex. many Linux distributions are payed, and all must be opensource, the detail here is that the only thing you're demanded to do is to provide the source too when the client buys the app. Of course that this isn't very practical as in the moment that someone buys the app, that person can redistribute it for free.
Blue is everything.