While I have a working package of Damn Small Linux in PortableApps.com Format that doesn't have an extra command line window ready to go, the QEMU included with DSL has a closed library (FMOD for sound) which means that it doesn't qualify as Free Software and, thus, can't be hosted on SourceForge.
So, I'm looking for someone who can recompile it without FMOD. If that means no sound, that's fine for now.
QEMU is written in C and compiled with GCC.
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Don't use DSL, please. It has a big problem with a lot of characters. For example: it makes ~a instead of ã, and makes accents in wrong places, being café caf'e. Do you see the problem? Use Puppy (or other) instead, please.
Blue is everything.
I'll be doing multiple Linuxes (Linuxi?), but they all use QEMU and, thus, NONE of them are open source packages on Windows.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
QUEMU is not the problem. I tried a LiveCd of DSL on a PC. The problem is with DSL kernel. And if you do more Linux...es(?) I will have no problem as it seems the only one that does that is DSL. Which ones are you doing, by the way?
Blue is everything.
QEMU for Windows includes a closed source component (FMOD for sound). That means that anything that uses QEMU can not be considered an open source package. Which means it can't be hosted on SourceForge, Google Code, etc.
*THAT* is the problem at the moment... and why I can't release my ready-to-test DSL. Nor could I make a package of Puppy and release it. Same reason. It's big, it'll be popular (read: expensive bandwidth-wise) and I can't host it on SourceForge. All the apps here are fully open source and hosted on SourceForge. If I were hosting them, the bandwidth would cost me $20,000 a month.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Not like you have a ton of extra time or anything, but is it possible that you could make a launcher for DSL or at least post the how to?
Life is about the journey not the destination!
The Kazoo Spartan
Please?
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
John - Is your focus entirely on Open Source? There are some nice freeware or proprietary packages out there that might complement the PA suite for a roadwarrior, where no comparable OpenSource package exists.
In other words, is OpenSource just a condition for hosting on SF.net, or part of the underlying philosophy of PA.com? I'm not being critical, or suggesting you change anything. On the other hand, I can think of some possibilities that might get hosting for non-OpenSource apps without selling your soul to the devil, but I wouldn't want to even think about them much if that sort of app is totally alien to the philosophy here.
MC
For a while it was necessity. First, only open source apps can be modified without permission of the publisher. And very few publishers will let an outside entity repackage their software without tons of licensing, contracts, etc (aka 'excessive lawyer cash').
Plus, hosting is tough. If I were hosting all the stuff we make available, it would be about US$20,000 a month in bandwidth fees. We do have a very popular site here (in the top 5,000 worldwide now). And downloads just keep growing.
I'm introducing hosted and repackaged freeware shortly. I have a server lined up along with a decent deal on bandwidth
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
QEMU-puppy seems to be hosted on SourceForge. How do they do it (or should we ask...)?
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=160696
MC
Simple, they're violating the SourceForge Terms of Use by hosting the files there. You can't host ANY closed source stuff on SourceForge except for small runtime libraries normally included with the OS (like the MS Visual C runtimes... but not Java or .NET).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I noticed after I posted the note (and did some experimenting with QEMU-puppy) that there was no source code available from the SF download site. That seemed odd too.
Thanks for the response.
MC
I'm searching for that right now. I read somewhere that they said it's OSS. Why not ask FMOD at http://fmod.org ?
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
Steve has already recompiled QEMU with a different sound library, we're just waiting for some finalized stuff, and for John to take a look at everything. and no, FMOD is not OSS.
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
Communicating with someone who has a different base language can be interesting. ptmb and John both have problems, but they are different.
- John needs help with QEMU so he can distribute it with other software that uses it.
- Ptmb is concerned that the Linux distribution that John is using in this effort doesn't properly support languages that use diacritical marks.
John, is it possible to use your launcher with an unmodified version of QEMU? If so, how about a test release with directions to download and install QEMU from another source? This is similar to the original approach used in portable Java. Since you are not distributing closed source software, the forge may not have a problem. Another idea, have you tried using QEMU from it's source? Per their website, all of the delivered QEMU is GPL (as of today). The QEMU with DSL may be an older version if it has a closed source lib.
Ptmb, part of the reason that DSL doesn't handle the diacritical marks properly is that it uses an older release of the kernel than most other Linux distros. This is intentional - to restrict the size of the distro to under 50meg. Have you tried to contact the DSL support team to report the problem? As I understand it, they are English speakers and English doesn't use these marks consistently or often.
I already saw some DSL forums, and the topic was already discussed. I don't think that they are willing to change that. And I don't like DSL
. It is a little hard to work with. I like more Xfce, IceWM (or something like that) and others. Fluxbox is hard to work on. Even Fluxbuntu (non-official mod) is hard to work because of Fluxbox. I know that their goal is to get under 50mb, but unless that you are using a 1960 PC ( 
), then there's no problem, because the most minimal hard disk has at least half a Gb (and most pendrives have 256Mb and the new 1Gb ones are at 10€ here). I know I'm drifting off-topic, so I will stop here.
alanbcohen is right, I was talking of (?)diacritical(?) marks. When I said that QUEMU was not the problem I was talking of those marks. Because I know QUEMU wasn't still available here because of the libraries problem.
Blue is everything.
I know that their goal is to get under 50mb, but unless that you are using a 1960 PC ( Eye-wink ), then there's no problem, because the most minimal hard disk has at least half a Gb (and most pendrives have 256Mb and the new 1Gb ones are at 10€ here).
But some people want to have also some things more on their pendrives...like data files... The lower it's size the better. My programs weigh 13.2 GB and I DO care about every megabyte. Portable hard drives cost a bit more than 10€
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
There's the ability of choosing. I just don't like it; but other people might like it. And there's "flavours" for everyone. I am not saying that no one is allowed use it. I was asking John not to make DSL because of the many people here that are not English (including me), but if he's making more that one distro, then I have no problems here.
Blue is everything.
Just to let you know, there's no U after the Q as it's simply an acronym (abbreviation (?)).
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Way to be a mediator.
Cancer Survivors -- Remember the fight, celebrate the victory!
Help control the rugrat population -- have yourself spayed or neutered!
*looks at Steve*
Anyway, I'm sure I saw a GPLed sound library somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
The only one I know of is called uFMOD but thats a library for playing xm files, but maybe if you could give GStreamer (I believe it can work on windows I'm not 100% sure on that so don't quote me fully on that) a try. Another thing worth mentioning Qemu has sdl so try to add the code for enabling sound via SDL. after that is done I think you would only need the sdl Dynamic linking Library file (And for you non-tech people sdl.dll)
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
I'll go have a look.
A lot of discussing here... But no one with C skills is really offering help?
What which compiler you want to build it? MinGW, Microsoft Platform SDK, Visual Studio, or nvm, or...?
I am not that good in C yet, currently learning it. But I have some experience with compiling programs which also need third party library's.
is to check out The Qemu Forum which contains patches and some developer there maybe able to help you out there John
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
In general developers are not interested in playing the teacher for "non-C-geeks" (sorry). Maybe JTH has some bonus because he is prominent.
John Does his own programming and he knows C/C++ (I think) but is stuck in trying to get rid of fmod with something else. I personally suggest sdl because Qemu's VGA Display is run with it so why not the sound
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
I have made some progress with this, I have QEMU compiling properly and am just downloading an image to check it works, I'll look at removing the sound stuff tomorrow.
*EDIT* Anyone know where I can get a decent image?*EDIT*
What environment did you set up for it?
Try downloading DSL and then swap your QEMU for the one included... since that will probably be the first release we do as the launcher for it is already done.
Also, let's do a QEMU without sound first since that'll be quicker than trying to incorporate another library.
Perhaps we should setup a SF project for this since, to my knowledge, there are no publicly-available open source builds of QEMU for Windows.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Yeah, I say keep the source open!
It's open source already, so I'm almost 100% certain that we have to anyway, under the terms of the LGPL.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Shame on QEMU's creator for using FMOD! FMOD is csourced, so QEMU 4 Windows is not 100% opensource in terms of precompiled stuff.
Why don't we take a look at VirtualBox's source code for the sound? It uses QEMU for some parts anyway.
Edit: Looks like it just uses a modified SDL library for the sound.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Yeah, but VirtualBox seems like a tough compile. And there are no open source Windows builds of it anywhere (the binaries on their site are all commercial).
But, you're right, we may be able to take the modded SDL and make it work with normal QEMU.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
I know I got it to compile at one point, but I can't remember if I was using Visual C++, Code::Blocks or DialogBlocks.
There's a page on the LibSDL site about using sound.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
look forward to your test Steve.
Life is about the journey not the destination!
The Kazoo Spartan
Ditto.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
Appropriate, eh Steve?
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Hmmm?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
Ditto. Search it.
I don't get it still. :lol:
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
On here.
It's not that funny.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
.
Life is about the journey not the destination!
The Kazoo Spartan
my compiled version seems to work fine, and it looks like it wont be too hard to remove the FMod stuff.
I just remembered Check the qemu in QemuManager (at least version 4.0) You'll see qemu there without fmod.dll but SDL.dll instead
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
Qemu Manager isn't open source anymore (not since 2005). And they're violating the LGPL by not releasing the source to their binary of Qemu.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
you get my e-mail with the recompiled QEMU, I'll do a version with the SDL library later today, and one with DirectSound to compare, as it seems that they are supported by compilation, see this.
It looks pretty easy to do. Just seems like you only need to change the default to SDL (if anything).
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
it should be.
through that whole post and I am looking forward to having QEMU here !!!
Hope it hits the open soon.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
I've sent the stuff to John (along with Toucan 1.2) so it's in his hands at the moment.
I also think using VirtualBox (instant of QEmu without QEmu Manager) would be better. Also the new seamless integration feature is great.
What about asking VirtualBox developers about an agreement so this can be hosted here in original?
So you're saying you need to find perhaps an opensource alternative to QEMU (FMOD). Oh, and it says on it's website (strangely) It's open source. You might want to ask the author, perhaps.
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
I understand the whole fmod closed source argument above. pendrivelinux.com is distributing their QEMU setup with fmod included from sourceforge. so, are they doing something they shouldn't? Did they get permission from sourceforge to host an app with closed source code in it? If so, should we persue the same thing?
My intent isn't to get PDL "in trouble", it's to figure out why they're "allowed" distro closed source files from sf.net and we "can't". Maybe they don't know about this fact or don't care (that fmod = closed source).
Discuss...
References:
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/09/19/portable-qemu-persistent-pendriv...
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=197880
Cancer Survivors -- Remember the fight, celebrate the victory!
Help control the rugrat population -- have yourself spayed or neutered!
If they're including it on SourceForge, then yes, they're violating SourceForge's Terms of Service agreement.
SF's download mirrors are only for open source binaries. The only exception is for smaller runtime libraries normally included with the operating system. The Microsoft C++ runtime library is allowed. .NET and Java runtime environments are not. Closed source audio libraries certainly aren't.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Have you contacted Steve yet? I wouldn't leave him waiting. From what I hear, those guys turn green when angry. Or maybe that was Canadians
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau