Hi,
I'm trying to decide between U3 and PortableApps and want to understand hwo the two differ or are similar. I have had a browse through the site but cannot find anything to compare it to U3. Does the Portable Apps platform have a standard boot partition and then mount a virtual partition in the same way that U3 does?
The reason I ask is that I am looking to carry some apps and data on a USB flash drive but would like the drive to be encrypted AND to be able to be used on any PC. As far as I can understand, this is achievable using Truecrypt on a U3 drive, but am unsure if this will work for Portable Apps.
Chris
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Howdy Chris,
TrueCrypt is not compatible with the U3 platform if you want to securely encrypt your whole drive or any part of U3 (documents, app data directories like your bookmarks and saved passwords, etc).
You can TrueCrypt encrypt any regular flash drive and use the PortableApps.com Platform within it. TrueCrypt does have the issue that it will only work on a PC when you are logged in as an admin, though. If you'll only be moving it between your own PCs, you'd be ok, though.
Or, you could purchase a drive with true hardware encryption. Something like the the Kingston DataTraveler Secure or Elite. And then use the PortableApps.com Platform on that just as you would any other flash drive.
Also, the U3 platform is far less popular in terms of actual usage than PortableApps.com so apps are much more out of date. And it's being replaced by an incompatible Microsoft platform later this year.
Any more questions, just ask.
Oh, and welcome to PortableApps.com.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
the Kingston DataTraveler 2 has a software solution for this, where it partitions the thumb drive into 2 sections, and the second, more secure partition can only accessed with a password. before you put in the password, the 2nd partition doesn't show up, only the first one.
But there’s no sense crying over every mistake,
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
This kind of hardware usually use a low-entropy encryption or no encryption at all, and these devices require to have administrator rights to map the protected partition to a drive letter.
Personally, I'd just stick to TrueCrypt when possible.
I'm quite sure from anecdotal reports that the Kingston DataTraveler Secure works on non-admin accounts. And, according to the website, it uses "256-bit AES hardware-based encryption". I'm working with some manufacturers that use similar encryption tied to software passwords and fingerprint readers as well.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
sorry about not saying that before, but yes you need admin privelages to do the inital partitioning. but not when you are accessing the data.
But there’s no sense crying over every mistake,
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Well thanks for all the responses, even if we went a little off topic. I guess the only way to encrypt a drive is to use a hardware based USB encrypted stick, unfortunately these are generally quite expensive, especially for larger sizes.
Over on the True Crypt forum I wondered if True Crypt could be made to work in a similar fashion to U3 - i.e. two partitions where the first would be a read only one that would launch the encryption stuff to unlock to second.
Interestingly, one of the other answers I go back was that PortableApps would run under U3.
Chris
Swin
Corsair voyagers offers 256 bit AES encryption for 20$ for 4 GB
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
Ooh, I missed those. Will check them out to see if they are in the UK.
''''
OK, just checked them out and it appears that they offer encryption using TrueCrypt!
Well, this brings me back to square one as TureCrypt will only work on a PC that you have admin rights to. The point being that I want to take data with me and I might need to use a public computer so I do not want to leave any trace of data on that computer.
Hence the idea of U3/PortableApps but using encryption.
Swin
Hey John,
Do you have any links off hand related to that replacement? It doesn't shock me that they would be doing that, but it does still make me sad. U3's interface has never been that great, but I can't imagine what Microsoft is bringing to the table. The only reason I really kept U3 on my flash drive was because of Skype, and they aren't even updating that anymore for U3 (still at 3.5.)
Anyways, I would like to look over some reading if there is any official reading material on this switch. Microsoft is always delivering a mediocre product while charging an overinflated price either with direct software such as Windows itself, their Office suites, and other said software or indirectly through product licenses on other manufacturer's hardware. It's sad that SandDisk is going this route.
.. okay, off my soapbox I go
At any rate, it's just annoying to find out. One wonders if Microsoft will allow the software to be uninstalled on the drive?
/dev
and found:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/may07/05-11SanDisk07PR.mspx
and
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2128799,00.asp
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
Yes it is, I have a Sandisk Cruzer that has both the
U3-Launchpad and the TrueCrypt- programfiles on the CD-"Partition".
(You can expand the size of the CD-"partition" if you use the right version of the Sandisk LP-installer)
Of course you have to mount the TC-volume before you run the
U3 Launchpad but it can be done ..
Well, first, U3 does not have a "virtual partition." It has two partitions: the first one, which is read-only in most circumstances, emulates a CD-ROM drive (to leverage the behavior of "autorun" in older versions of Windows). The second one, taking most of the drive, is a normal USB mass storage device. Personally, I hate this arrangement because it takes two drive letters and force-runs the U3 manager. I had an U3 drive and I ripped out the U3 feature because of that.
PortableApps is a much better-behaved app in that regard. Yes, it defaults to running the PortableApps Menu when plugged in -- but XP will ask first before running, and you can easily disable this behavior by editing or deleting the autorun.inf file. (Hmmm, John, what about a pref on the menu to do this? Less-technical users might find it useful...)
U3 has other bad points. U3 apps have to be "blessed" by SanDisk to work with their manager at all -- so, it's harder to write U3 apps. Because of that, many of them haven't been updated in a long time -- I believe Firefox is still in a 1.x version, for instance. It's a proprietary platform that's dying.
Personally, I hate this arrangement because it takes two drive letters and force-runs the U3 manager.
Not sure what version of U3 you had but the running of the U3 Launcher is optional and the option is available in the U3 menu.
what about a pref on the menu to do this? Less-technical users might find it useful...
Apparently not everyone uses menu items, even when present. U3 apps have to be "blessed" by SanDisk to work with their manager at all -- so, it's harder to write U3 apps.
No harder than packaging a PortableApp app. SanDisk has a U3 Prototype utility that anyone can use to develop an app of their choosing. I'm not sure what tool PortableApps has for users adding apps. I remember fighting with something last year to add a simple app.
And the 1st app I added to both the PortableApps menu and the U3 menu were links to PStart. MUCH easier to add apps with it than either of the other two and no concerns about multiple exes in the same folder or adding simple cmd files to the menu.
It's a proprietary platform that's dying
Yeah, it's so bad MS bought the rights to develop it. :o I wonder what their version will be called, Live 3 maybe?
Ed
Not sure what version of U3 you had but the running of the U3 Launcher is optional and the option is available in the U3 menu.
Auto-run is optional. But 2 drive letters is not. You have to use two drive letters.
No harder than packaging a PortableApp app. SanDisk has a U3 Prototype utility that anyone can use to develop an app of their choosing. I'm not sure what tool PortableApps has for users adding apps. I remember fighting with something last year to add a simple app.
Apps for the PortableApps.com Platform don't have to be packaged at all. As long as you put them in the right place, you're fine. You don't need to package things in a closed source installer (violating the GPL in the process).
I think he's referring to the U3 certification which is required for being listed on U3.com. Certification doesn't mean much. Last time I checked, multiple programs in the U3 app directory failed U3 certification and leave things behind. This has always been the case.
Yeah, it's so bad MS bought the rights to develop it. :o I wonder what their version will be called, Live 3 maybe?
Well, it's far less used than the PortableApps.com Platform despite being bundled on 10s of millions of drives people bought. And lots of their apps are out of date or no longer supported by their developers/packagers.
The new Microsoft platform is called StartKey. From what I've heard, it's closely tied to Windows Live, Office, Internet Explorer and Mesh (Microsoft's 'cloud' storage). The advanced features will only work on new heavily-DRMed drives from Sandisk and others who license their technology. And the big deal will be that you can take your desktop background, documents, contacts and software with you... sound familiar?
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
The new Microsoft platform is called StartKey. From what I've heard, it's closely tied to Windows Live, Office, Internet Explorer and Mesh (Microsoft's 'cloud' storage). The advanced features will only work on new heavily-DRMed drives from Sandisk and others who license their technology. And the big deal will be that you can take your desktop background, documents, contacts and software with you... sound familiar? (John T. Haller July 8, 2008 - 4:38 PM)
Well, it looks like I will no longer be giving SanDisk my business. What a sad shame seeing as how I recently bought 3 drives (1 1GB / 1 2GB / 1 4GB) from them. Any suggestions on flash drive that compares well in performance (or better?) Also, any suggestion on what someone who loved using a portable version of Skype should do?
/dev
For Skype: Look for instructions online for making it portable, learn NSIS and attempt to make yourself a PortableApps.com version of it, ask nicely that somebody update the outdated Skype launcher that's in our beta test forums somewhere, or wait until this site has it's own freeware/commercial server for hosting PortableApps.com packages of non-open source apps.
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
I saw the method on making Skype portable and now have a semi working version. I say semi because the only thing (as far as I know) that doesn't work is the plugin manager (Do More ...) This really isn't a problem anyways as I find most of the Skype plugins to be lame. I did post a thread over at the Skype forum which suggested that perhaps they could do like TrueCrypt does and give the ability to a locally installed version of Skype to make a "portable" or "travelers" version on a set USB device. Not sure how they will respond though or if they will even respond at all. Always worth a try though!
/dev
For flash drives- a corsair. I have one, 4gb, and its faster then my 2 gb sandisk.
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
But 2 drive letters is not. You have to use two drive letters.
I have to think that there aren't many systems with 25 drive letters previously assigned so I personally don't see that as being much of a problem.
Apps for the PortableApps.com Platform don't have to be packaged at all.
I've seen so many references to NSIS and other apps, like the ones listed in this thread, https://portableapps.com/node/13307, that I was under the impression that PortableApps had a special package format. And the few apps that I have downloaded are in a paf.exe format so it does appear that there is some kind of packaging involved.
Well, it's far less used than the PortableApps.com Platform despite being bundled on 10s of millions of drives people bought.
What do you base that statement upon?
And lots of their apps are out of date or no longer supported by their developers/packagers.
Yes, I see the developer of their FF 1.x app dropped out. And the big deal will be that you can take your desktop background, documents, contacts and software with you... sound familiar?
Not so much. What are you referring to?
Ed
Just a guess, but I'm thinking his last point is referring to the PortableApps.com platform...
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
I have to think that there aren't many systems with 25 drive letters previously assigned so I personally don't see that as being much of a problem.
This is actually an issue with many public computers. A good chunk of the terminals in public libraries that are locked down don't work with U3 at all (even if you leave it unlocked, you can't even access your documents or pictures). A good chunk of the computers in drug stores don't work with it either. Some it's because it won't let U3 mount as it's odd setup. Some because they only allow a single drive letter.
And the few apps that I have downloaded are in a paf.exe format so it does appear that there is some kind of packaging involved.
We make them available in PortableApps.com Format for easy install. But you can drop *ANY* standalone app on your drive without packaging or reconfiguring and it'll work in the PortableApps.com Platform:
https://portableapps.com/support/portable_apps_suite#addingapps
What do you base that statement upon?
From actual numbers. When U3 was more popular (it's been fading for a while), on average, their download numbers on an app to app basis for Firefox (which was number 1), Thunderbird and OpenOffice.org were between 1/10th and 1/40th the number for the portable app equivalents. This was back when they used to market it and before they laid off a good chunk of their staff and went into staying-afloat mode. I don't think a single U3 app has ever had close to 50,000 downloads in a month. We have several apps that do every month. Far in excess of that in the case of our most popular ones.
Yes, I see the developer of their FF 1.x app dropped out.
Yup. And they attempted to have someone else do it for Firefox v2 based on some of my old code. It's wonky, doesn't portablize everything and leaves files behind, failing U3 certification (as did other apps in the U3 directory last I checked). Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Skype, FileZilla and many others are all out of date. And many that are out of date have known security issues.
Not so much. What are you referring to?
"take your desktop background, documents, contacts and software with you... sound familiar?"... that would be PortableApps.com, of course.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Yup. And they attempted to have someone else do it for Firefox v2 based on some of my old code. It's wonky, doesn't portablize everything and leaves files behind, failing U3 certification (as did other apps in the U3 directory last I checked). Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Skype, FileZilla and many others are all out of date. And many that are out of date have known security issues. (John T. Haller July 9, 2008 - 11:00 AM)
So true it isn't even funny. U3 really dropped the ball (if they ever had it) so it won't shock me if they slowly fade away in another year or so (maybe quicker?) I can't forgive SanDisk for going from heavy proprietary/DRM to Microsoft (complete DRM hell.) They lost my business when I found that out which really does suck because they make decent drives. Why not just wipe out the Microsoft software and be done with it? Because in my mind I know I still paid X amount of dollars which will go to a Microsoft royalty for software I never wanted to use nor did. Yes, I do realize it's the same with U3, but U3 had some functionality that had me using it for a bit (mainly Skype.)
/dev
When U3 was more popular (it's been fading for a while), on average, their download numbers on an app to app basis for Firefox (which was number 1), Thunderbird and OpenOffice.org were between 1/10th and 1/40th the number for the portable app equivalents.
But wasn't/isn't FF already on the U3 drive? There would be no need to download it whereas it's the only option for a PortableApp app.
that would be PortableApps.com, of course.
D'oh! I was thinking you were referring to another MS app.
Ed
But wasn't/isn't FF already on the U3 drive?
Firefox for U3 was not bundled by Sandisk or any of the other major manufacturers. I think one smaller one did once for distribution in Japan of the Japanese version about two years ago, but I'm not sure if they did.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!