windows on usb harddrive

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January 27, 2008 - 12:42pm

jps

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windows on usb harddrive

I don`t mean windows pe or bart pe, I mean a hole windows installed on a usb harddrive.

Many people found on google reported that it`s possible to get windows running on a usb harddrive. It`s just a bit complicated to setup.

It`s also possible not to run into legal problems. Some examples therefore:
- http://www.vitaligraf.de/?Projekte:Windows_Unattended_CD_Creator
- http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Boot-Manager-Disk/xp-Iso-Builder.shtml
- http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
Basically NO files where microsoft has a copyright are deployed with the program. All files are downloaded from legal places thought the program or even better the user has to download this files again. It`s up to the user to purchase licenses and to read, confirm and accept the license agreements. Therefore it`s perfectly legal.

My request is to create a program which helps you to install windows on a usb harddrive.

January 27, 2008 - 1:41pm

Tim Clark

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It`s just a bit complicated to setup...

"Many people found on google reported that it`s possible to get windows running on a usb harddrive. It`s just a bit complicated to setup."

My guess is that there's a reason for that.
My suggestion would be to just follow their instructions as you would never have to do this more than once, or would you?

"It`s up to the user to purchase licenses and to read, confirm and accept the license agreements. Therefore it`s perfectly legal"

I don't know about this. Seems like a case of, "Sure, I gave the kid the grenade, but I didn't think he was going to do anything wrong with it"

There's a big diff between an Emergency/Utility disk and a Full Operating System. I'm sure MS would have some problems with this, and rightfully so I think.

I really don't see this happening

Tim

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

January 27, 2008 - 1:48pm

SmithTech

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Awful lot of unnecessary work

I don't think your going to find someone willing to take the time to do this, unless possibly one of the authors of the above programs will include it in their existing products.
I did a quick google search myself and found This
Having used UltraISO to slipstream servicepacks into the XP install I can tell you its not really complicated at all if you just follow the instructions, there fairly easy to follow.
However writing a NEW program to do all that is required would be a lot of work with little "reward".
You time would most likely be better spent attempting to follow the instructions instead of trying to find someone to write the program.
JMHO

"Because they stand on a wall and say, 'Nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch.'" (A Few Good Men)
Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.(Albert Einstein)

January 27, 2008 - 9:51pm

Aciago

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Not legal

remember that the license is to run your copy of M$ Windows in just one computer, so installing it on a usb drive and then use it as portable (in many computers) is not legal...

BTW, why do you need to run an OS as portable when all that you need is your Apps on every machine you use... that's why we have Portableapps.com...

Or in other way... why do you need Windows portable when all the PCs you are going to use have Windows already installed...

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report

January 28, 2008 - 2:45am

(Reply to #4) #5

RMB Fixed

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...

Because PortableApps.com is not all that you need..
Running your own OS solves the untrusted host problem, just as an example .
and m$ better wake up and smell the future, there's no "license-problem"
doing this with Linux .

January 28, 2008 - 7:29am

sergentsiler

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ive personnally...

gone over this many times.

just need a computer that supports usb booting & either a plain or partitioned usb HDD/Flash.

then you install from boot. after it is done, make shure that your comp will boot from usb and you are set.

i myself have done this so it does work with all of the effort of a regular install. and no this does not require any software to do this.

Zoop

January 28, 2008 - 7:56am

Shawn Faucher

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Not very useful..

Irregardless of the legality of doing this, it's also not very useful since it is very unlikely it would work on computers other than the one you install it on. This is due to two issues:

Windows activation will detect hardware differences and probably eventually lock you out.
If the hardware differs enough (doesn't take much) windows will not boot at all. This can be gotten around by installing on very vanilla hardware and uninstalling everything non-essential, using MS drivers for everything else and then running sysprep. This would have to be done every time you shut down, however...

A virtual machine and a vmplayer on the usb drive is a better solution, and it's even legal as long as you use a fresh copy of windows.

formerly rayven01

January 28, 2008 - 9:30am

jps

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Tim Clark ""It`s up to the

Tim Clark
""It`s up to the user to purchase licenses and to read, confirm and accept the license agreements. Therefore it`s perfectly legal"

I don't know about this. Seems like a case of, "Sure, I gave the kid the grenade, but I didn't think he was going to do anything wrong with it""

This just shows how stupid our world is. When you buy flatware you will need to sign an agreement "I will not use this to do evil things." because some lawyer has sued the manufacturer of a flatware in past because someone done evil things with it.

Same if you buy a gun in usa. Sign some agreements and the seller does not do anything illegal, even if you use it for evil things. No agreement would mean the seller is also responsible.

Just read laws and agreements, look what others do, follow them and live your live. But please don`t think to much about laws and forget to live.

Aciago
"remember that the license is to run your copy of M$ Windows in just one computer, so >installing it on a usb drive and then use it as portable (in many computers) is not legal..."

It`s legal. BartPE and ubcd4win are two examples therefore (you may just use one at the same time, read at their projects...). Microsoft does not complain in any way because it does not violate anything.

If you still say the situation is legal unsure then I admit. There are no important judgements from curt about this.

If you still think you do something wrong then you may purchase a second license.

rayven01
"...windows activation..."
Ok, I did not thought about this. I own the cooperate/professional edition and there are no stupid nagscreens about activation, therefore I do not have this problem. A second option would be to disable activation or to just activate it again.

January 28, 2008 - 1:20pm

(Reply to #8) #9

Shawn Faucher

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RE: disabling activation

Ok, I did not thought about this. I own the cooperate/professional edition and there are no stupid nagscreens about activation, therefore I do not have this problem. A second option would be to disable activation or to just activate it again.

Disabling activation definitely is illegal thanks to the DMCA. Using a volume license copy in this way is probably also illegal unless it is only being used on machines owned by the purchaser and thus covered by the volume license. As for re-activating.. with completely different hardware you'd have to call in to MS every time and I imagine they would refuse re-activation after a few attempts at this.

What it all boils down to is yes, it can be done, but is only useful in very limited cases.. namely in a corporate or similar setting with volume licensed OS and only used on machines covered by said license. This is most likely a tiny subset of the PortableApps.com userbase, and a legal gray area besides.. I doubt something like that would be hosted here even if it were attempted.

formerly rayven01

January 29, 2008 - 12:02pm

(Reply to #9) #10

jps

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There are how many countrys

There are how many countrys on the world? About 190...

In my country the microsoft eula is not legally valid. Because:
- when you buy a new comp you have just a buy agreement with the seller, you are not informed about the eula and you do not sign it
- the eula is to long, to tricky and to hard to understand
- it`s to restrictive for costumers

Plus some differences:
- no software patents currently here (but discussed)
- You can ask microsoft for the interpretation of their eula, it`s not hard to find out. Currently them hunt only people down who make illegal copys and sell them in a commercial way.
- Not a single time them have complaint over private costumer, no statements at all.
- Not a single time them did try to enforce any points of their eula because them know that it would be really pointless.

And is this a forum for law talking and legal advice? Which country (of the over 190 ones) are we talking about?

I think it`s a good idea to let the user think himself about laws in his country. In my view in this forum talking about laws is getting out of hand. Also the fact that many people just post *something*, before them read the hole eula / concerned laws and maybe some judgements.

January 29, 2008 - 12:16pm

(Reply to #10) #11

ZachHudock

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You are correct that not all

You are correct that not all laws are the same in all countries, maybe where rab040ma is from it is illegal like he said, although in your country it is not.

I dont think it's a question of a specific country when these legal questions get brought up. The way I understand how the PortableApps.com community wants to be represented is that they want no ties with anything that could be seen as legal. This could even mean that whatever the discussion is about is illegal in only a small group of countries, but perfectly fine elsewhere.

I agree that this forum is not designated for legal advice, but if somebody brings up a topic of questionable legality, we should at least make a point that it might be illegal, but we do not need the full blown discussions on legal issues.

The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705

February 1, 2008 - 9:39am

(Reply to #11) #12

rab040ma

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One other minor point: this

One other minor point: this web site, and the company that owns it, are located in the US. While the people who use it might not all be subject to US laws, that company is.

Also, copyright is subject to an international treaty. Most of the countries in the world are signatories. Specific implementations might be up to the countries involved, and some countries flaunt it with impunity, but it is still something to consider.

I too would prefer to have a "free speech" attitude toward discussing things like the ways to make WindowsXP run off odd hardware or in virtual machines. On the other hand, there is such a thing as staying on topic, and the topic of this site is currently open source software that can be run easily from removable drives under Windows. So even if it isn't illegal in one's country, common courtesy suggests that we stay on topic.

February 1, 2008 - 2:59pm

(Reply to #12) #13

RMB Fixed

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Copyright-laws have nothing to do with EULA's, they are
legally binding agreements and are regulated by national contract laws and consumer-laws .
Just because a US EULA or the US DMCA says something it doesn't mean the rest of us have to care about it. If the fact that portable apps is US-based prevents people from saying anything that might be against the DMCA you should seriously consider
re-locating to a free country .

"1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access, display and run one copy of the Software (Windows XP) on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not be used by more than one processor at any one time on any single Workstation Computer."

What this means (in my country) is that I am only allowed to use Windows XP
on one (single-CPU) computer at any time. This is also the entire purpose of m$'s "anti-piracy"-implementation . It does not grant m$ the right to restrict me to a specific computer unless it's a OEM-XP.
So, it IS legal for me to install XP to a removable drive and boot it from a computer of my choice .. therefore I am also allowed to take the steps needed to ensure that I can use the product ..

In some countries m$ might not be legally entitled to disable/revoke
activation just because somebody chooses to update more than one piece of hardware ..
and what sites like this should be doing is to constantly question the practices of
non-FOSS vendors and explore the possibilities before m$ manages to ruin it all .
It's not like m$ are not exploring this, you can make a very good portable XP
with Windows XP Embedded (includes the Enhanced write filter, a must for flash-drives) and this nice little tool : http://www.usboot.org/tiki-index.php

The advantages of booting your own OS should be obvious but just to name a few :
Security, Admin-rights not an issue, portability (smaller than a notebook)and ..security !

February 2, 2008 - 12:04pm

(Reply to #13) #14

rab040ma

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off-topic

I fear you misunderstood most of what I was saying. My apologies for not saying it more clearly.

EULA's are in fact (or try to be) contracts between the owner of the software and person licensed to use the software. If your legal jurisdiction tries to invalidate or re-interpret contracts in favor of one of the parties, that's "interesting". Just because that re-interpretation of a contract takes place in your country is not a good reason for you to insist that every other legal jurisdiction must honor it.

Copyrights are also enforceable, and are generally subject to a license too. If I own a copyright, I can grant you permission (license) to use the thing I have copyrighted. If you do not have a license to use copyrighted material, there may be some "fair use" you can put it to, but otherwise you have no rights, and may even be subject to criminal sanctions. If I give you such rights, it is generally called a license. The license I grant you to use copyrighted material might be in the form of a contract. It might even be combined into an end user license agreement based on other considerations besides copyright. In fact it usually is.

In other words, while EULA and copyrights are different, they are frequently and rightfully combined in most discussions.

I won't dispute that some jurisdictions have decided that Microsoft's licensing is unfair or for other reasons have invalidated the contracts. I also won't say whether I agree or not. That's not really the issue.

The issue isn't even free speech. No one has deleted your statements that I am aware of.

The purpose of this web site is (currently) to promote portable use of open source software. So at the very least it is off-topic for you to insist that we discuss how to boot XP on a USB drive. The fact that the web site might face some harassment if the discussion includes circumvention techniques for non-FOSS software is not simply a matter of free speech, but of being on topic. If any legal action were taken, there are many good arguments supporting the right of the web site to host such discussions, but that's not the point. It's not even the point that in the process of a successful legal defense, a huge number of resources (time, etc.) would be consumed. What is the point is that it is off-topic.

February 1, 2008 - 7:57am

#15

scottak

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Qemu is an open source

Qemu is an open source machine emulator software that can be installed on a portable device. From there it would be possible to run a legal copy of Windows in a portable virtual machine. I know, because I've done it (Don't ask me how, I don't remember anymore). It's a pain in the butt to set up however, and if your host OS is Win2k you won't be able to share network resources without installing software on the host machine.

It is an option though...

February 1, 2008 - 8:17am

(Reply to #15) #16

ZachHudock

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we know about

we know about Qemu...unfortunately it uses a closed source sound library, some of our developers are currently working to modify it to use an open source sound library instead.

The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705

February 1, 2008 - 6:27pm

(Reply to #16) #17

Ryan McCue

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In fact

Steve managed to compile it. Note to John: I don't believe you contacted him about that

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."

February 2, 2008 - 5:04am

(Reply to #17) #18

Steve Lamerton

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Indeed,

I would like to get something moving on the front as QEMU seems to have been forgotten

February 3, 2008 - 9:34pm

(Reply to #18) #19

ZachHudock

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did you mean the QEMU

did you mean the QEMU project, or your recompiled version was forgotten, cause it looks like QEMU updated about a month ago

The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705

February 3, 2008 - 10:52pm

(Reply to #19) #20

stenrulz2

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hi in the windows xp or

hi
in the windows xp or vista install cd or dvd, windows see the flash drive or portable hard drive if it is formatted ntfs. windows will boot but comes up with the windows blue screen of death. all it is missing is a patch, that changes the boot.inf and some other files in windows.

February 3, 2008 - 10:55pm

(Reply to #20) #21

stenrulz2

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hi you can create your own

hi
you can create your own windows live cd and then convert it to usb with (PeToUSB 3.0.0.7)

February 4, 2008 - 2:34am

(Reply to #21) #22

Ryan McCue

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He means his

He was talking about the fact he recompiled it without the sound library.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."

February 4, 2008 - 11:03am

(Reply to #22) #23

BuddhaChu

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QEMU compilation thread bump

I bumped the QEMU Compilation thread as this one is on a tangent from the original post and I have a question that's more appropriate and on point in that thread.

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February 4, 2008 - 12:23am

#24

kamek5

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Alternatives

All of the things on PortableApps.com are open source, windows is not open source. Linux is open source and doesn't have a million system files to slow down boot times off a flash drive. They are working on usb linux at pendrivelinux.com and with wine you can run most windows programs. ReactOS is an open source operating system trying to get a windows-like operating system. Check it out sometime. Also, with the open source Qemu emulator you can boot linux within windows.

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