I've been busy the past week and I'd just like to note what has happened and make a few generic comments. If I've missed anything you think I should know, let me know here.
Translation Team
I've noticed we now have an official beta testing team. As Patrick would say (while driving up in pimped out mini-van), w00t w00t! 
Along these lines, I think we need an official translation team. (Hold your thoughts until I finish)
This team would take a look at "approved" betas (betas ready for release) and note exactly how to translate it. These translations would then be published at the same time as the actual release, if possible. If the original program doesn't allow it (allow refers to technically allowing, not legally allowing), the team would contact the original developer with notes on how to add translation support (i.e. Gettext). They would also provide support in their language within the forums.
The actual team would consist of at least 2 translators for each language including English (to check for errors in translations and to help developers to add translation support).
The initial languages would probably be:
- English (My self and another person)
- German (Marko and Simeon)
- (Italian?)
- (Spanish?)
- (Russian?)
(Only suggestions here)
Mailing Lists
With regards to the official beta testing team, the best (and most efficient) form of communication would be a mailing list. From my experience, the best way to do this is on your own server using Mailman (Google Groups is good, Yahoo Groups is really, really bad).
Proposed lists:
- pa-hackers - Development Discussion (PA Format, menu, etc)
- pa-translators (pa-polyglots if you're feeling saucy ) - Translations and translation discussion (see Translation Team)
- pa-chat - Discussion about cats, in French (bad pun :P)
24 Hour Turnaround
I think that it would be really simple to write a batch script to automatically compile the installer, sign it and upload it to an FTP server. (Really simple = I've already done most of it)
The only thing that would need to be done is to download and extract the app (could be added to the batch file if necessary).
See Subversion below for more on this
That Whole "SourceForge" Place
SourceForge is too hard to upload to. I cannot keep using that! I'm in favour of either:
- Using Google Code (web based uploaders++); or
- Writing a script to automate it (near impossible. This is why Google Code > SourceForge)
Application Requests
We need a better way to keep track of requests and to allow users to vote on which apps they would like to see.
In my opinion, the best way would be to have a voting system, with each user allowed 3 votes each. Any user can add a new app (after moderation), however only if they have a vote left. Each user can revoke votes for an app at any time, and when an app is marked as completed, the user will receive a notice and they will receive their vote back, so that they may revote.
Subversion
I'd love to see Subversion used for all launchers, regardless of what they are. This would allow developers to download pieces of it at a time (i.e. just the Java stuff from OOP) and would allow an automated build system to repackage apps on the fly. All a developer would need to do would be to "tag" the release and the repackager would take the information from the appinfo.ini
If you would like any information on any of these, I'm more than happy to expand on my ideas. If you'd like some proof-of-concept code for any of these, I'm more than happy to whip some up.
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Google Code doesn't let you link to your homepage. That, and It's not as pretty :P.
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
Google Code also has miniscule default quotas (30MB upload limit, 100MB total files limit). Anyone have any experience with how easy it is to get these increased?
formerly rayven01
Contact the mailing list and they can up it to whatever you desire
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
You can add a link that lives in the sidebar on the homepage.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
the idea with the voting. It might be rather difficult to implement but maybe I'm wrong. I don't now about the hosting. I like Sf.net but I never uploaded anything.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
Some good ideas.
A batch to automate stuff might be useful if it's possible to do. The uploading (and signing??) of beta's sounds great. But don't bother with signing Beta's as it possibly adds another bottleneck to the release of Betas. But if it's possible to automate stuff, I'm all for it
Having language support is cool for some people, but that also introduces another bottleneck. I already feel the waiting for all the languages be in before an beta is posted or before a release is done. I use all my apps in English language anyway, so translations might be wasted on me.
Mailing lists sounds like a cool idea but makes me get the feeling the Beta testing could be isolating itself from the publish beta testing. Before we know it there's some place private where betas are being tested, then a public beta test and after that maybe even a release. The talk about cats in French could indeed be done in private though
Using SVN for languages is useful, but requires people to use an SVN application (like Tortoise SVN which I use). So you would have to rely on the translators using SVN as well. And I don't know if it is possible to set up rights. (Rights for language commit but not for sourcecode commit)
Application request and voting sounds logical but it might result in people voting for apps that have a similar counterpart in the suite already? For example it might turn into InfraRecorder vs IMGBurn kind of things. Portable Apps should also be a way to get the best apps of its kind without doing research of which one is better yourself. I mean, people should have access to a broad selection of apptypes without having 5 CD burning tools, 3 office suites, 6 ftp apps, etc. So voting would be great when used properly.
PA-Hackers? You mean instead of public discussion about the format, you rather have a few people in a glass tower ponder over the menu and the format?
The 24h turnaround I don't understand completely. You mean something like nightly builds?
Great suggestion though. I hope they help remove rather than add bottle necks to the release of applications. Yay Ryan!
PA-Hackers refers to the developers/testers i think (Beta Testing Team)
24 hour turnaround would mean that if the base app releases a new official build, PortableApps.com will have their new portable build out within 24 hours.
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
Translation Team is a great idea.
You may want to replace "hackers" with a different word as "hacker" isn't typically a good association.
24 hour turnaround is definitely a good idea, that script should make things go even quicker.
Not sure about GoogleCode vs. Sourceforge, I haven't uploaded anything to either of them.
I don't like the idea of voting. Users should be able to post requests for any application they wish, and if a developer is interested, and the app can legally be portablized, it should be attempted. If people A,B,C,D,E want [appname] made portable, but people [F-Z] vote against it, it wouldn't get done, leaving that first group of users out in the cold, or stuck finding another solution. I say as long as a developer is willing to take it on, they should be able to. We do need a better way to keep track of these requests though.
I've never used SVN, but that sounds like a cool idea.
The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705
1. The term "hacker" is not a negative term, at least among hackers!
Now, a "cracker" is a bad thing - and I mean people who illegally distribute "cracked" commercial software!
2. No comment.
3. SF is the de facto place to put OS apps.
4. If we set up a voting or polling system, we should only include the ability to vote FOR an app, not vote against.
It's a way to let the developer know which ones have the most interest.
It won't stop any developer from picking up any app they want, but if they have to prioritize, it will help them choose the "hot" ones.
5. There was a recent bruhaha around the Infrarecorder app, someone made a new version, but JTH had another in the can, but the first guy didn't know that, yadayada... would SVN help to prevent that? Never used it myself, but I understand that it tracks versions of SW.
I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.
With regards to 4, that was my idea. That way, we only count the people that actually want that app.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Add me to pt-PT!!!!!!!!!!
Love the ideas. And I think many of those are easily able to be made. I offer myself for the Portuguese-Portugal translation (when and if the translation team is approved).
Blue is everything.
We won't be switching to Google Code. Just because it takes 3 less clicks to do a release doesn't mean it's better
The simple fact is that SourceForge.net is the largest open source website in the world and that isn't changing anytime soon. It's worth it simply for the wide exposure we get from it. Google Code does not and can not give us anything close to that. Upload, Create a release, select files, email isn't really that hard. Just because you can't upload it from a browser window... stop being lazy, Ryan 
As for the mailing lists, we'll be doing one with the beta testing team. We'll be using mailman via SourceForge's mailing list most likely. I think one for the platform development might be a good idea, too. Ideally, I'd like a forum for that hooked to a mailing list, but I'm not sure that's doable with Drupal.
Voting for apps isn't a bad idea, but we'd need a more experienced Drupal hacker to help out with that. If you can come up with something, I'm using it. Until then, we can start doing Polls in the forums once Drupal 6 is running for us (still awaiting module updates).
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
... as it seems first time You look on it.
For the ones who wants a better stand-alone utility (Gui) there is releaseforge:
http://releaseforge.sourceforge.net/
It is easy to use, works stable and gives You a good way to manage the builts of all Your SF groups.
Depending on Your account it offers all Your projects with built in check for upload/edit rights.
I don't know the google tools. SVN is ok too, but if there is a way to use the SF mailing lists as John said, I vote for SF.
Regards
Marko
Paid for Software more or less?
What You need is OSS!
...
(I wrote that too much :()
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
looks really cool, but it keeps saying my sourceforge login/pass is invalid :/
formerly rayven01
We wont give up out Top 3 ranking easily!
Looking forward to the polls!!!
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
It sucks for me, because SF is really slow in comparison. It always tells me that my file didn't upload correctly and if it did, it always gets messed up in some way.
SourceForge mailing lists add advertisements to the end. I think having them hosted off this server would be a better idea.
I'll write the generic PHP code and then someone can adapt it (I might, if I have time). In fact, I think there's a simple and easy JS one...
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
I don't understand how SF.net is hard to upload to. I do a couple of clicks in FileZilla and when I come back a few minutes later, I go to the appropriate page and there they are.
Web browser based uploading is frequently slow and iffy.
Usually you don't use your "release" code-signing certificate to sign beta code. Do you have your own code-signing certificate we can use?
I like the idea of being able to browse through code in subversion, to see how things have changed, including John's thinking about how the launcher and installer should work.
I think it would be good also to modularize the launcher code a bit, such as by putting certain common routines into functions. For example, if an app writes all its data to the .\Data directory, simply don't call the function that moves configuration files from $SETTINGSDIRECTORY to $PROGRAMDIRECTORY and back.
MC
Translations: A team sounds good as long as it doesn't hold up release of the apps.
Mailing lists: Personally I am not a big fan of mailing lists. While on the surface they seem to be much more of an 'instant' form of communication, they make it much harder to categorize and search archives than a good set of forums. What's the benefit of a mailing list over a forum with email notification turned on? Basically I'm asking why is it the best form of communication?
24-Hour Turnaround: Is this for official apps or dev tests/release candidates? If you're talking for official apps, I can see this being a good tool for John (or a release team if that ever happens) to save some time but this can't just be fully automated; many times new releases of an application break the portability of the launcher until manual changes are made.
Sourceforge: Sourceforge uploads are a pain, however I'm not convinced Google Code is the answer either. My main concern is Google Code has quotas (and miniscule default ones at that). Due to the sheer volume of files that we deal with I seriously doubt that we would be able to use Google Code without eventually having to pay for more space (ala Gmail, Google Pages, etc). I could be wrong here, but it's a valid concern we need to check into.
Application Requests: That sounds intriguing, I like it. Are you volunteering to write the web code for such a system?
In response to Logan's reply: I'm not a fan of limiting user choice to one application per category. It's a matter of personal preference. Some people like VLC, some Mplayer. Also due to the nature of Open Source, the 'best' application changes on almost a monthly basis sometimes due to changing developer support, etc. At most I can see a 'recommended' app for each category with other choices available.
Subversion: I'm all for subversion for source (and possibly framework), however SVN does not work well for binaries.. the space required for versioning binaries is usually prohibitive. Since portable apps contain tons of binaries, often special ones (UPXed, locales stripped, etc), I have my doubts on how well automated packaging would work if we're forced to leave out the binaries from SVN.
formerly rayven01
I don't think that the 24 hour thing is for betas too. It makes sense for official Apps as long as the changes aren't too big, but for Betas I think its not good as more time is needed for testing/developing.
And I don't like the idea of automating too much as I think its easier to forget certain things. But if the quality doesn't suffer, why not.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
I don't like the idea of automating too much as I think its easier to forget certain things
Lol, maybe, maybe not. Automating things is so you do not forget certain things. At least as long as you split the develop kind of things and the upload kind of things so you can test it before posting to catch anything not correct.
For example you forgot to update the AppInfo ini, would love to see the changing info automated into the proper places to avoid forgetting updating something simple across all files who need the update...
The quotas can and are upped quite frequently for single projects via the mailing lists.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
forget the moderators list
I think three votes is quite confusing, I prefer good-old-one-vote-per-person but I'm not the only one here...
About the translations team... I'm in... Spanish (ES-LA)
If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report
And here would be my responses:
Translation Team
I can speaka da englig! But really, I'll be the 'other person' if not one if ecstatically energetic over attaining the role.
Mailing Lists
There are all for sure needed. I like the hackers one, and we definitely need the chat one as well. I feel we also need to be promoting the IRC channel much more as it's getting more and more popular, we're having a decent number of visitors visiting for support requests, and feel it makes a great support alternative, as well as general chat about development, translations, etc. X-Chat Portable is one of my most downloaded applications. John, please comment.
24 Hour Turnaround
I'm not all for this yet, the app would need to be first reviewed to check for any changes, and add any new small changes needed, but I suppose for the average application it would be beneficial. John could also start assigning some of his smaller apps to have small releases updated by known developers.
(Digital Signing, *sigh*, that puts as back).
That Whole "SourceForge" Place
Yea, I hate SourceForge with a passion, yet love it with a passion. I can't use that site on my internet, I just can't. By the time I get my file uploaded, log in again and again as SourceForge continues to tell me I'm not logged in, and go page by page to add releases, etc, I just... hate it.
However, I totally disagree with moving all the applications there.
However, Ryan, we need to work on mirroring beta files. I've got 20GB's of disk space on my server, and 500GB's of bandwidth monthly, and since I don't have a 'site', I got tons of it to spare. The only downside on my server is that I have that bloody 10MB upload limit, however, we could have larger files uploaded and your server, and then mirrored. Of course, if we got this working as a semi-official beta upload location, I might be able to get some donations to purchase some more bandwidth.
Really, it's needed. Most users are uploading to RapidShare, where by IP is banned as it's used by tons of people on my internet, and uploading to SourceForge developement test after development test is ridiculous.
Application Requests
Yup, this has always been mentioned, and always ignored. Maybe someone will pay attention now.
Subversion
Meh... never really use it, I guess I could get into it.
Thank you, and OUT!
I will definitely end up writing that mirroring script, I just haven't had time.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Instead of email, at www.Mediafire.com, not only can you upload files without an account and have unlimited total space, if you have a username, you can make folders with more than one file to download at once, make folders/files private and only accesable if you are logged in to that account, and even password protect a private file so even if you all share one account, only people who know the password can open the file. The best part, uploading a file is as easy as locating the file, and hitting upload. Sourseforge is still the place to go for public ones since you can have a webpage and search for this site, but for private files, Mediafire will fill all your needs
Simplifying daily life through technology
MediaFire's not for everyone. Although I like it SO much more than RapidShare and many other places, MediaFire is also block is many places, still has ads, some popups, etc.