Hello,
I'm currently using the PortableApps.com suite daily, and I have been using Firefox portable for a while now (when it was using a customized icon, not the official Mozilla Firefox icon) when it was hosted on John personal website. With time it evolved into a mature platfom known as PortableApps.com . I was wondering if there was any plan to further develop the PortableApps.com project in order to remain competitive against commercial platforms like MojoPac, Ceedo and other commercial solution? ( by the way my goal is not to do any kind of advertisement, just to do a comparison with the competitors)
Are you planning to go into a kind of sandbox virtualization similar to Ceedo, or stay with the NSIS wrapper, or is there any other progression path available to improve the project on long term development ?
Oh, and thank you very much for maintaining such a project that is PortableApps.com, it changed the way I'm carrying my data.
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The future of PortableApps.com is bright.
I don't think we have anything to worry about from Mojo or Ceedo.
In fact I hope we concentrate on individual apps and avoid making the "platform" any more important then it needs to be.
As far as do a comparison with the competitors
I hope we don't, that's the commercial way of doing things
We're here, we're, Good.
Use us if you want, use them, it's up to you, you have choices
Are you planning to go into a kind of sandbox virtualization
Hope we avoid it like the plague
Just my quick opinions
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
Are you planning to go into a kind of sandbox virtualization
Hope we avoid it like the plague
Why?
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
Got this on Wikipedia after following Tim's link:
YAGNI
Blue is everything.
Yeah, right. Don't make your software better because you can screw something...
KISS is a good rule unless it prevents it from making significant improvements.
Thanks, I got the point, I'm not gonna follow.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
You seem to have taken offense, I'm sorry
Perhaps I've misunderstood something, it's been known to happen
Are you suggesting that every app be run in it's own virtual machine, that's what I think I'm reading.
If so, why do you think this would be such a great thing, does the host really need to be "protected" from our apps?
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
At times it would be useful, and others annoying. If anything, adding it as an option wouldn't hurt. Anyways, I hate the idea of KISS in games, but love it as a foundation.
Will it happen, not anytime soon. There's too many applications that need to be portabalized first.
No, I didn't take it as offense, I just don't like overusing KISS.
Not really a VM, some programs couldn't do their job then. (Usually the ones that require admin rights ;))
This approach is better not because it protects system somehow, but lets you avoid doing some things in a dirty way.
I think that the most bold example is waiting for app to close, then doing some cleanup. What if your launcher is killed? I don't know if it can happen with any current PortableApps.com app (if my mind serves me well, AbiWord has this issue, but I'm too lazy to check :P), but sometimes this destroys local settings . Even if it doesn't, it leaves some rubbish. Also, having launcher running in background is a waste of system resources.
The last thing - if it was the only one - would be the perfect example, when KISS is absolutely reasonable. The last two too. But saying "KISS" with the first in mind is a big no-no.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
I obviously don't know about this stuff.
If we are not talking a virtual machine than I don't really know what was being asked for.
I was thinking in terms of each app having to be bigger, and having more to do, and needing more resources than it does now
Tim
Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?
Sorry, it seems I didn't know enough about the topic. Anyway, my points are valid here too.
And so are yours, except KISS.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
In overall I prefer the PortableApps.com project as it is open source, and tend to promote these kind of software. However, Ceedo currently have an interesting ability to install the application of your choice so it can be run from the USB key, without having to create a launcher. The "platform" will all take care of these steps, so you don't have to create a new launcher every time a new application is requested.
The NSIS wrapper approach does have the weakness of needing to "clean up after itself" and the possibility of data loss or data left behind if something interrupts it. I think most of the problems we've seen come from people dismounting their drive before the cleanup process is finished, or the cleanup process being interrupted by Windows as it shuts down. The NSIS approach is "simple" in some ways, but overly complicated and fragile in others. The better approach would be to manage the portable environment in real time so it is less fragile, and to eliminate the possibility of data being left behind if the cleanup function fails. That's the strength of the Mojopac or Ceedo design.
If the functionality of the platform depends on there not being a power outage and the user not shutting down in the wrong sequence, perhaps it is too simple. I think the KISS principle has to do with keeping it just simple enough, not over-simplifying it to the point of losing critical functionality.
Admittedly some of the Portable Apps don't have that limitation. For example, if the launcher can keep an app from writing to the registry, and get it to store its data on the USB device directly, there is probably no "clean up" needed. There would be no fragility, and thus no need to virtualize anything. So KISS would apply. But if a power outage could leave the Portable App with data in the registry and stuff written in APPDATA, it might be good to ponder a bit more virtualization.
Just my two cents.
(Perhaps it would be good to identify which launchers depend on the cleanup going well for their continued functionality, especially if missing some step in the cleanup process means that data might be lost or privacy compromised.)
MC
that its a problem if the cleaning process is interrupted, but although I havent used it I think that if you use Creedo or Mojopack and you yank the drive while the platform isnt finished with its job it can cause problems too.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
Depends on how is it implemented. If it's done quite well then you can loose some partially written files. If it's done very well you won't loose or leave anything.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
but it's the problem of any program is there was a power outage.
Don't be an uberPr∅. They are stinky.
With the new installer generator coming up, I would guess a universal wrapper will be coming (if not Klonk's template). Currently I would say that PApps.com is practically kicking the behinds of almost all other companies :D.
Insert original signature here with Greasemonkey Script.
I guess would be a nice touch to provide "official" PA launchers for freeware-only, but not open-source applications - only the launcher itself would be hosted on SourceForge, of course. I would say Opera for example, but there are many, many excellent freeware applications (for example, I've created launchers for DVDDecrypter, DVDShrink, WinDjView and more, for personal use, but a platform-compatible launcher would be better).
The way how the platform works is not a perfect solution, but pretty useful. The perfect solution would be the support of portability (and the platform) by the application itself, like many does. These wrapper-sandboxie environments like Thinstall are nice, but they are also a bit complicated.
I don't think that providing launchers only is a good solution.
A better idea: automatic downloading the closed source files during installation.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
doesn't like the idea saying it's demeaning to FOSS.
My idea is to have the user download the installer for the freeware app to a location, specifying where it is, then extracting it. (You might not haave an internet connection.)
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Well, he rules here.
But personally, I highly dislike programs that say "You! Look! This app is published without sources! It's very bad! Are you sure you want to use it? Really? Ok, so do it, but don't count on my help".
For me the difference between FOSS and FCSS is minor, programmers from both groups do something good. When one tries to convince people that the other is bad, evil etc...it's totally wrong.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
My idea is to have the user download the installer for the freeware app to a location, specifying where it is, then extracting it.
lol that was my idea!!!
look here
Please search before posting. ~Thanks
Just my two cents. I'm new here, but I'm really growing to like the community. I used to use a Ceedo drive until I discovered PortableApps. Ceedo is pretty buggy, and Argo (the program you use to install "any app" onto the drive) only works with certain applications and costs money in addition to the Ceedo program. When Argo does install an app successfully it's still not perfect. I used to run Safari from it and it crashed regularly. I actually removed Ceedo from my drive and installed PortableApps instead.