Okay,
Jumping straight to the point, IMHO the request apps forum is in dire need of some reforms. To be honest, it's really getting on my nerves to see a request for Adobe Photoshop every time I look in there, to the point I've been avoiding that forum. There's already been around five requests for Photoshop, yet even more for other commercial, closed programs.
Too often I see a reply to a topic, that basically says "please search", "no, this is closed source", etc. I would love to see the forum guidelines revised to something more solid. I think Erik's comment to this photoshop request epitomizes the frustration some of us have been experiencing.
I've posted a rough outline for a possible revision here, so people can comment on my ideas.
Here's John's original guidelines,
Before posting a request for an app, please use the search function in the top right corner of the page to see if it has been discussed before. That way, no one will need to repeat themselves.
and Ryan and wsm23's revised un-official guidelines.
Some suggested guidelines:
Check Search the Web, and these forums to see if the software already exists, is being developed or has been mentioned before.
BEFORE Posting please check the license of the software and make sure it is BOTH free and open source. (more about this below)
Please provide a description of the software you are requesting.
Please provide a link to the manufacturer's or developers web site.
PLEASE do not request the latest version of your favorite software so soon after it is released. ("Hey did you know that the alpha/beta/new version of __________ just came out a couple of hours ago? When will you have it ready on this site?") John is updated on all of the software that he produces for this site probably even before the general public is.
Freeware vs Open Source:
Freeware licenses usually mean you don't have to pay for the software, some sites may charge a distribution fee , but the software itself is free. Most licenses do not allow the software to be modified at all prior to redistribution.
OpenSource software usually means that the developer or author has provided the source for his software and allows users to modify and/or redistribute the software. Usually this software is also free.
Portable vs. "Just Works™"
There are quite a few apps that will definitely run from removable media: floppy, cd, portable hard drive, usb flash drive. That does not necessarily make them "portable".
"Just Works™"means
Settings might be retained between computers.
May leave registry settings
May leave files on the computer
NOT portable means:
Program requires other programs to function or special access. OR
Program leaves settings in the registry. OR
Settings cannot be taken with you.
Program must be installed
Most programs that are run on any Windows computer leave traces in the MUIcache or the Windows Prefetch area. In order to get some programs to work from a single folder or removable media most must be modified so that their settings stay within that folder or at least the single drive. This is where the license and source are important. In order for the program to be modified and made portable it must permit modifications and redistribution. And the source must be available so that programs and developers can properly modify it.
Summary:
So to summarize, just because it is "free" does not mean it can be modified. Freeware, shareware, trial (etc) are not usually open source. If it is freeware, please check the license first to see if it can be redistributed and modified.
It is illegal to modify and redistribute commercial, or closed source software. We do not support or tolerate that around here.
Moderator Ryan's suggestions:
https://portableapps.com/node/5513:
When requesting an app, please provide the following information:
Name of the program
Website for the program
Description
License (e.g. Freeware, Open Source, GPL, etc)
Anything else which might help
An example request is displayed below:
Program: My Example Program
License: Open Source/GPL
Description: An example program.
Website: http://www.example.org/
Other: 5 registry entries found under HKLM\MyEx
The 2nd one is strong, I think it could use some revisions though, and I think that we should merge the two into one official guideline post. My core ideas for the forum guidelines are here:
- Search before requesting (first and foremost!) - Do not double-request, continue with old topic
- Clearly state what the license is - Freeware, OSS: GPL, etc.
- Describe the software - no one liners: "I want *blaugh* portable!!"
- Provide a link to the website
- Don't request updates to current apps
- Don't request .NET apps - link this to page on John's site
- Have some minimal knowledge of what is left behind on the computer
- Don't ask "when will *app* be finished - do that in the app's thread, if absolutely necessary
- Don't request new features for current apps - this is for the "Portable App Development" forum
- And last but not least, have a specific app. Don't make us search for an app for you, that's what Google's for.
Ideas for supporting points for above:
- It is easy to use the PA search function. Don't be lazy.
- We can't help you if we don't know what the software you want is for.
- Requesting updates to current apps only hours after the local one is released is considered annoying and rude (sorry to be blunt!)
- If you don't know what the license is, look for a file named license.txt in Program Files\*yourappshere* or search Wikipedia
- By following these rules, you will help PortableApps.com process your request quicker, and possibly make the app portable quicker as well.
As I said, this is just a draft outline. I can throw in a posting template with html tags, and I think a "Do not request these apps" list might do good as well, for all those commercial adobe apps that everyone wants, as well as apps that are already being worked on. I can also write it up in a proper post.
Alright, lets get some more ideas!
Regards,
Brian
Update:
Here's a start for a "do not request" list:
- Any Microsoft Office App (or just any microsoft app?)
- Any Adobe Creative Suite or former Macromedia App (or just any adobe app?)
- Windows (duh)
- Internet Explorer
- Adobe Reader
- Quicktime/iTunes
- Windows Media Player
- Real Player
- Windows Live *any*
- Nero Burning ROM
- WinZip/WinRAR
- Norton/McAfee
- Any app for which you must reboot your computer after install.
Any more?
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i agree with you totally. you have the interests of PA at heart and it shows. I hope that the developers will see this and you can all work on this together to expand the rules.
some people don't seem to know how this site works. or just want2 get something for nothing. re licensed programs. using opensorce programs are much better and however they came about it a blessing to computer users all over the world.
An Old Irish Blessing
May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand.
MickeyJ4J
It might be hard for technically challenged users among us to -not- to request open source applications that use .NET or 'some minimal knowledge of what is left behind on the computer'. Just to let you know
but as I suggested, the licenses are *usually* easily accessible on Wikipedia. I think we all have to agree that not everyone here is technically inclined, but if we say "look here, and tell me what it says" :] it shouldn't be too hard.
Probably 90% of new users don't even bother reading the current guidelines before requesting.... I am not trying to be negative but I am just saying.... We need a way to make them have to read this in order to go to the regular forums.
iLike Macs, iPwn, However you put it... Apple is better ^_^
"Claiming that your operating system is the best in the world because more people use it is like saying McDonalds makes the best food in the world..."
This to has been said before . . .
If it would help that stuff getting on our nerves, then, by all means it should be changed!
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
Regardless if a user reads the rules or not, It's nice to have something to point that user to that says "oops, you didn't follow the guidelines; here's what/why; please don't do this again, thanks", instead of someone explaining the same reason multiple times.
For example, instead of explaining why it isn't necessary to request updates every time someone does, one could post something like:
Please make sure you follow the request guidelines (link here)Next time, you don't need to request updates. Thanks! (If necessary) and Welcome to PortableApps.com!
It would save us the trouble of having to carefully word a response explaining why something can't be done, without sounding harsh or rude.
I have been in forums where you have to read the guidelines for that forum before you even see anything, if it is your first time in that forum. I don't know if Drupal supports that, but a Subject line like
Request Guidelines: PLEASE READ FIRST(or something along the lines of that) would be enough to make it obvious what is expected.I think that at least part of the Unofficial FAQ section about the Request Apps forum should be used.
It includes user readable information about what can and can not be ported, and provides advices on what to do before posting something.
Do also agree with most suggestions, except the "Have some minimal knowledge of what is left behind on the computer". Most users (like me) don't know what an app leaves, but if the user knows it is OSS and knows that its platform is OSS, then it should be acceptable to do a request for it, of course it is always better to provide info on what is left or not, but only if the user is able of such thing.
Beyond that I do also agree we need a better way to provide the FAQ to the user against its own will
. My idea is to provide it above the Post form, but I have no idea of how to put it there.
Beyond that a small list of commonly impossible to portabilize apps (like photoshop, IE, MS Office, and other) could be attached. And I say a small list with only the obvious apps everyone requests and everyone knows they will not be made here.
Thos are my 2 cents.
Blue is everything.
Rewording what I said, "some minimal knowledge of the app". If the user is comfortable poking around in %APPDATA% or the registry, go for it, but if not that's fine.
Edit: Yeah, that unofficial FAQ has some good stuff in it.
And Again: I added a start for a "do not request" list.