Like a lot of people still waiting for categories. Has been talked about for a while. Any ETA on this feature? It seems the aim of the game getting "more apps" with that pretty little PAF extension rather than improvements to the platform. the proof of this being look at how many new apps come out compared to platform updates & betas.
Excuse my anger but the categories carrot has been dangled in front of our faces for quite a while and has not happend & last time I asked in a post it was ignored.
It seems very strange that the geek menu which is ripped off from portable apps anyway (but is inferior in every other way)has it and the pa platform doe not. At least tell us when it will or will not happen, that's only fair. the only reason i joined the forum was to find out when this was happening.
Cheers
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As a user of portable apps with piddling to no programming ability I would find it hard to describe my reaction as "anger" to something that is very useful and offered totally free, but not 100% in line with 100% of what I want. By collecting only useful and functional apps they finally allowed me to use open source software without running into the "OSS is total crap so that's why its free" sentiment that I had experienced for years. Thank you PA team for making me love free software! If a feature isn't there, it's probably because a volunteer didn't specifically have enough interest in that feature relative to something else. Someone could plan to have things done but the volunteer programmers' interests are what turn plans into reality.
However icbweb, if you commissioned a freelance programmer on the board, paid real money, and didn't get the programming service, I'm with your anger 100%. You seriously deserve answers.
you know what it's going to be a feature but you just have to be patient, this is a team of developers that give their time to code these things, we do have lives here, we do have family, I'm sorry if you don't like that, Well you are still going to have to wait.
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
It's probably not going to happen.
The R34 menu has been out for over a year and a half. It's got categories, and the feature works perfectly, as good as anybody has any right to expect. If you want categories, get the official menu v1.5.2 and apply the patch to it. Done. You have category support.
Categories have been hinted at for over a year here, but the general consensus is that the dev team just does not like the feature. Well, they say they don't like how the feature is currently implemented in R34, but that doesn't vibe because it works just fine. The only thing that does vibe is that they want the categories to default to the ones on the Apps page here, but that isn't hard to implement. R34 places a text file called AppNamePortable.pafdata in the root of every app folder, which tells it what category to use. The official menu ignores this file, so it's harmless to have. If the installer (of the app) included that file, what the dev team says they want would happen automatically.
Right now there are two options: Use R34, or buy/pirate (the software required to compile the menu is payware only) Python and alter the source to include the categories code from R34. I don't really need categories, so I'm sticking with the official menu, but the functionality exists for those who want it.
And guys, he does have a point about dangling the carrot. The official menu having categories is starting to look like Duke Nukem Forever. If y'all keep dropping hints it's going to get done (even crass remarks like "it's coming but you gotta wait), people are gonna keep asking. What you probably wanna do, at this point, is to tell people, "look, we had a change of heart - we're not doing categories. Sorry bout your bad luck." See how many people leave. Probably not too many. Then you spring it on 'em, you look like saints. Think about it...
;-)I have just tried this patch - Great stuff!
What an improvement, especially if you have a large number of portable apps.
We should have a sticky thread about this & have it officially recognised.
Actually it's officially unrecognized. There's... not sure if you'd call it drama, but there are certain issues that aren't quite public about this. We're advised that recommending the R34 patch should be made with the note that it is unsupported here and has been known to cause problems. I've never had a problem with it. Though, if you install a new version of the official menu, it will overwrite the R34 mod. Little stuff like that. And how it modifies the official menu, it doesn't make its own directory and work separately from the official menu. And uses the official branding. Cosmetic and licensing stuff really.
That said, I'd love to see it completed as its own independent project. As in, it wouldn't need the official Platform to be installed first. It would install to its own folder, drop a new launcher in the root of the device, and alter autorun.inf. Also it would include an option to select your own banner, as opposed to the name/slogan on the official one. Basically do the same thing, but not get broken if you decide to update the official menu. (And the menus would show up in one another, of course, unless you hid them.)
What do you mean by "general consensus"?
I can find several quotes from John where he says that we wants categories and he is going to implement them. The first one is older (Nov 08) but the second one is from July 2009! That doesnt sound like "consesnus" to me...
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
Python? No, the menu is coded in Delphi, as are most of its mods (R3x, Geek.menu, etc.). I'm also pretty sure that the actual IDE and compiler can be downloaded and used for free, as well (but you can only have one free CodeGear product at any one time due to technical limitations). Here's the link in case anyone wants it, as the site is fairly confusing.
NathanJ79, although I might seem a little "snarky", you do have to remember that the menu will be out when its out, but if that isn't good enough you can learn delphi and write the categories support for the menu and then join the one person development team.
But there’s no sense crying over every mistake,
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Is it really only John that is developing the platform?
I would have thought that with all the talent here, he'd have at least delegated one or two more to working on different aspects of the platform.
I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.
The way I know it is that he asked the mods devs to join him so they should be like 3 or something.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
so it was interesting to read this: https://portableapps.com/news/2009-03-06_-_platform_1.5#comment-113406 from SmithTech
Yeh, I read that most MOD developers were asked to join development on the menu but last I heard there still was no SVN repository setup and that is needed to have these devs working together. (Hoping by now a repository is set up and devs start adding code to branches, but is it's still not set up I worry if it will be happinging this year...)
By "general consensus" I didn't mean just what was said, but a combination of what's said and what's done. What's done (and isn't done) is weighted heavier than what's said (and what isn't said). Generally the weight of examinations goes "done > not done > not said > said". That's how I draw the picture. I see the R34 mod having been done in early '08 with fully working categories, and a year and a half later, despite what's said, despite the code being written and available, the feature is still on the waiting list.
Again, this is just an observation based on the above examinations and in no way intended to be a judgment or criticism of the project. If it were a criticism, I'd be using the R34 mod, but I'm not.
Delphi? I could have sworn I heard Python, and then I read that while Lazarus is a free alternative to Python, certain parts of the menu (most notably in memory, the transparency effects, e.g. in the corners) could not be done in Lazarus. What's R3x (and, as others say, xRx? I only know of R34)?
Not at all, I do understand, and it is good enough. OTOH, when I thought it was Python, and before I realized Python was payware, I was considering rebuilding PAP 2.0 Beta 3 with the categories code from R34, just to see if I could do it. I took apart a game once using its SDK, and changed a whole bunch of stuff. Some stuff worked, some didn't, but I think I learned a few things. Certainly not enough to build something myself, but games for example use a lot of variables, and tweaking those nets pretty good results. Never got into adding features, but, I did get permission from the author of another mod to incorporate a couple of his features in my project. Not sure I could contribute as an active developer, but take code from one project and put it in another? I'm more confident I can do that. But it will be for nothing once the latest R34 comes out (I assume they're waiting for a non-beta release).
uhmm Lazarus is a free alternative to delphi
lazarus is more of an IDE to pascal and delphi is just an ide to their version of pascal
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
Well now I'm really confused. Twice! First because of what language Lazarus is a free alternative to, and now Delphi's not free? So what's this huge app I downloaded? I did download that app linked above, and when I get some time off work I'll putz around with it at home, open up the Platform source and the R34 source and see what's what.
Lazarus is still unable to compile the menu then, right...?
Lazarus is not Delphi. It's a FreePASCAL IDE (meaning that if you've got a FreePASCAL application, Lazarus actually adds no functionality...
Feel free to search about a comparison between Pascal and Delphi for more information.
I am a Christian and a developer and moderator here.
“A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15:1
Python, Delphi, and Pascal. (PASCAL?) So... which one is the menu now?
I found the source for 2.0 Beta 3 on SourceForge, unpacked the .7z file, and I've got a bunch of files with a bunch of different extensions.
Is that the source itself, or does it need to be further unpacked with something? The only other code I worked on (besides basic HTML and very basic CSS) came in a package that had to be opened by the game's SDK, and it unpacked a few hundred very small text files the SDK could then recompile into the .u container... obviously something's gotta compile that source to .exe, I guess, but there's the launcher (flash drive's root), the menu itself, the backup, the restore, and a bunch of resource files, and folders.
ok bluntely and simply as possible the platform is coded in delphi
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
Even more simple
I am a Christian and a developer and moderator here.
“A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15:1
Free Pascal (sorry, not FreePASCAL as I thought it was) is a Pascal implementation. Read up on it. The PortableApps.com Platform is written in Delphi. It's never been Python.
The source code can be opened with a text editor... I think Delphi uses the .pas extension (thus further confusing the Pascal/Delphi distinction).
Before you try understanding it all though, I'd like to say don't bother... to be able to compile it once more you need Delphi 2006, which is no longer for sale!
You might like to read a 1500-word essay I wrote about this whole subject broadly, The Tower of Babel in the Land of PortableApps.com. I'm still waiting for comments and questions on it... I need to add some new findings and discussion of the compiled/interpreted debate.
I am a Christian and a developer and moderator here.
“A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15:1
I did just read that post. There's a lot of info there, which is probably too daunting for most people to comment on.
I do find it ironic that on this site, where the virtues of Open Source are held in such high regard, the core platform is coded in an obsolete version of a commercial IDE - and not a cheap one. Delphi Professional is $900.
I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.
OK, I opened main.pas in Notepad++... and the status bar says it's a Pascal source file (?!?). Anyway, I'm not familiar at all with this language, obviously... it's not as straightforward as UnrealScript (which I imagine is based on C++, but that, and JavaScript, and a couple others look real similar to me). But in some places I can kinda see what it's doing.
I did read your blog/essay. Well, most of it. Well, skimmed it. A lot of it went over my head. I considered saying, since you said it was a long post, that it was longer than anything I've written on a given day, but I didn't want to say just that and nothing of any real value.
Not as ironic as you might think. Open Source =/= free, it just makes more sense. (Example: SubDownloader is shareware on Windows, free on Linux, but the source is free and it's GPL'd. Someone recompiled it without the 30-day limit as "OpenSubDownloader" and this is perfectly legal. At least, the author of SubDownloader doesn't really care.) The real irony is that to actually modify the menu, it would seem one would have to pirate the software. Or perhaps buy it from a vendor who still has a copy kicking around somewhere.
What I'm wondering then, and I know this gets into what Chris was getting at with his
wall of textessay, is why we can't use C++. Not C# or whatever that depends on .NET, but can't apps made with regular C++ be portable? C++ seems to me (as a non-programmer) to be that language that people start out with. I actually took an introduction to programming class (and failed miserably - I got lost when it came to passing variables between functions) and it was all about C++. So I wonder, what limitations does C++ offer? I know, generally, the easier the programming language is to use, the more limited it is. You don't see too many spiffy apps written in BASIC. (Ah, the memories... it's very simple and fun to make a Mad Lib in BASIC that asks the user for nouns, verbs, etc. and then prints the story on the screen.) But C++ is more widely used, and its language, I think, is more accessible. Easier to read and all that.Huh? I am using geek.menu while I am waiting for categories (and because it has some other goodies, too) – and I am very pleased with it, it fits my needs. I may be slow, but … which are all these other ways in which geek.menu is inferior?
it has inherited some bugs from the old platform it's based off of while the new platform addresses those bugs and tries to continue addressing those as well namely 1 bug that was about dpi level where the platform didn't look right at a higher dpi, John got that fixed now, John also added better wine support so in wine the theme is now square instead of a distorted looking theme that is showed before too.
your friendly neighbourhood moderator Zach Thibeau
I don't use a higher dpi or wine - so I'm not bothered by these bugs.
I still look forward to categories (&c) in the official menu.