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Foot print, smallest shoe size possible?

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weringpeter
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Foot print, smallest shoe size possible?

Please let me know what are the steps to take to live the smallest possible foot print on the computer that I use my flash drive on.

So far I use the truecrypt with autorun, than when I finsih I delete what's left with ccleaner portable.

Suggestions are welcome.

ottosykora
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If I understand

then you produce extra traces by ccleaner just to attempt to remove some traces done by truecrypt?
Because any software run under windows will produce traces.
So since ccleaner is windows software it produces same traces itself, so can not see completely the point of 'minimizng fotprint' . So the whole seems like a dog trying to catch his own tail.

The only way to avoid number of such traces is to run some command line executable and call it up directly from command line box like in old DOS times. Such software needs to run on itself and not go and use any other subsystems of windows etc. The only record in registry might be then if you are lucky the use of command prompt only.

On the other hand if you run truecrypt and ccleaner, you are running it obviously on your own PC and have admin rights for it, so why to bother.
On other PC which is not yours, you have no admin access and thus can not run truecrypt and ccleaner, so you will not produce more traces then 'someone tried to run something and dis not succeed'.
You will certainly leave the serial number of the stick in the registry for example.

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

weringpeter
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What about Linux?

Thank you for the suggestion, but for me that is just too complicated and time consuming.
USB number is no problem, I just don't want to live any information behind when I live.

Is using computer with Linux any better?

What about using control + C and control + V for copy paste. Does that stay on your clipbrd even if it is done in portable apps open office writer or similar?

And another question.

If I just use my usb torbrowser bundle for gathering information on the web and I do it in a cyber caffe on their computer. Will other visitors be able to see what I am doing? Will admin be able to see what I am doing?

Whatever is good, is not bad.

ottosykora
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any information?

this is then very high level task.

There is big difference between not leaving any personal data behind and not leave any information at all.

You leave behind information like what software you were running, what files did you open in which order, what make and serial number of usb stick have you been using etc. This is simply a windows function, there is not much one can do about.
It might be slightly better on linux in some aspects, but this will depend on distro, since some of such 'features' are more related to convenience of usage of the graphical front end of the linux rather then the linux operating system itself. (linux itself has no graphical user interface)

>What about using control + C and control + V for copy paste. Does that stay on your clipbrd even if it is done in portable apps open office writer or similar?torbrowser bundle for gathering information on the web and I do it in a cyber caffe on their computer. Will other visitors be able to see what I am doing? Will admin be able to see what I am doing?

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

weringpeter
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Thank you Otto.>What about

Thank you Otto.

">What about using control + C and control + V for copy paste. Does that stay on your clipbrd even if it is done in portable apps open office writer or similar?

Whatever is good, is not bad.

ottosykora
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clipboard

is basic windows feature, nothing to do with any windows application, nor open office writer or similar.
Clipboard is windows software and as such it is same for all programs run on windows. It can be run multiply, but mostly it is used only for single copy-paste procedure.
It is however in current windows also user connected, so once user is logged out, computer off, the data is not present just so simply. If you use a computer which does not belong to you and you leave things in clipboard and do not clear the clipboard, it is entirely your personal fault when the things remain there. So it is only your responsibility to clear windows clipboard when you leave the computer. I mean everybody who uses a computer since windows 3.x knows how to clear the clipboard, so this should not be an issue or is it?

BTW: also current GUI for linux have clipboard function, it is not part of the linux itself, but rather of the graphical part like gnome or KDE.

>>**What if I log in my account on a web site that does not have SSL, copy the data from there and log out?
Will the admin or other users be able to see that or will it be encrypted?
Data?
Password, username?

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

Darkbee
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Good Info, As Usual!

I think weringpeter will never use a computer ever again. Biggrin

weringpeter
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Good info Otto. I know that

Good info Otto. I know that my company is not going to do anything that drastic, but if they see I'm using company time for my own pleasure...

If I understand correct, they can see what programs I am using through traces the programs live behind, but they can't see what exactly I am doing, that is fine with me.

Or is every copy+paste I do there for my boss to read? Even with torbundle and ccleaner?

Whatever is good, is not bad.

J Neutron
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They own it

Um... this changes things. The instant you connect your work computer to the work network, they can watch everything you do. It doesn't matter if you are using portable applications, or if you loaded them from your USB drive, or if you use cleaning programs afterwards. They can watch you make every keystroke, they can watch every site you visit, every file you touch.

Please, if work wants you to work while you are on the timeclock, and will fire you if you use company time for your own pleasure, you can't use portable applications or us to help you.

I've said this before... if you don't like your job enough that you need to break their rules, you should find some other employer before they realize you don't like your job and find a reason to fire you, computer use or not.

neutron1132 (at) usa (dot) com

solanus
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J Neutron is so right

As I've seen on this site many times, we do not support or intend anyone trying to use PortableApps to get around the rules of your employer.
If you find that PortableApps allows you to do your job better, it's up to you to clear it with your boss. Trust me, a job is a great thing to keep.

A term you will also see in connection with this idea is stealth.
Stealth apps are semi-mythical apps that are undetectable by anyone. I have never seen a truly stealth app. Even if you use a Live Linux CD to boot a computer, it's still possible for a talented IT group to detect that an unexpected OS is running on the network.

Portable Apps are designed not to leave personal data behind, but have never been stealth.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.

ottosykora
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ok once more

the basic is, that what ever you do on your compute is first considered 'public', that means anybody at least in the same network, can see exactly what you are doing, read any text, knows what you are connecting to on internet etc.
If the other people on the network don't care, the IT admins don't care, then they will not read anything. But they can, any time if they wish.

But you have to adjust the usage of the computer at work so as if they read and see **everything**. That is the consideration you start with.

4 months ago, I started work for a company, we repair and design electronics toys 'for big boys' which are later painted in kind of green color...

Well I can tell you: connection of any usb stick other then one given from the IT department is registered, alarm is given in the IT department 80km away, my boss will get warning mail next day, saying that unauthorized usb devices were detected within his department in company network. We have thousands of computers, workshops and offices scattered throughout the country. Still all that is registered and also exactly supervised.
Our copy/scanning machine is connected to network, when I try to copy some schematics or similar document without asking IT for authorization, the copy machine simply freezes and does not do anything until reset by the IT dept.

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

weringpeter
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What about vpn?

Thank you for your info.
I am glad that you all have jobs worth clinging to, mine at the moment is not...

So not even tor or payable blacklogic or strong vpn, ace vpn... services cant do anything to hide my internet traffic from my boss or isp? I don't understand why people in China or UAE use them in the first place, it makes no sense.

Whatever is good, is not bad.

ottosykora
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right

nobody can prevent your boss (or the operator of cyber cafe etc) viewing every pixel on your screen and logging every keystroke on your computer.
If you find a way of doing it, report it to proper gov agency and you might become very rich.

You seem still to confuse all the crypto functions.

VPN is protecting data stream against 'man in the middle', that means someone who just reads the data stream on some cables underway between two networks.
It just connects two networks together. But has to have a server and client, it does not work somehow on itself alone.

Example on use of VPN as you ask:
Me and two friends on work stay in UAE.
Skype not possible, since partially passing ISP filters, but certain destinations of packets are blocked by the ISP and big firewall.

One friend is admin in one big international telecom company there. They have big powerful VPN connection to their HQ in europe.
He opened VPN connection on one of their routers/firewalls and started the service on one of their servers for us.
We this way arranged VPN connection from our accomodation via normal ISP to my friends company network.
The contents of the traffic can not be monitored by 'man in the middle', however the ISP(big firewall) could try to block certain form of packets, but it is not so simple any more.
My friend then routed our traffic via the big company VPN to their servers in HQ in europe. From there it was routed to the normal internet, thus skype servers.

So you see, to use VPN, you need two parts! The server with VPN open on the router and the service running and the client on your computer.

Special case are some commercial services, which use common ports on their servers and 'twist' the traffic then so the client in such case is using some generally open ports but the traffic is kind of encrypted. However since the ip of those servers is easy to find out, it is also not difficult to block requests to such serves.

TOR is just for anonymize websurfing.
On your computer, the requests let say : hallo google, here is weringpeter, please send me list of pictures of...

will be sent somehow as :
hallo torserver 1234, here is 5678, send this request to xxyy55 for me please

(where xxyy55 means the encrypted name google for example)

After this have passed few of the tor servers, it is converted back to its original, namely:
hallo google, here is 'last tor server', please send me list of pictures of...

and passed to the google server.

The pictures are then sent similar way back.

If someone cares, it is possible to try to block contact to tor servers, not very simple but possible. Other friend works at big insurance company, their IT guys seem to be smart enough to be able to block traffic to tor network, they have big list of other web proxies which they block as well etc.

So VPN and such things are really not a tool useful to stop monitoring within same network segment as it will be in a company network, cyber cafe or small home network.

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

Darkbee
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Thoughts

I'm guessing they would use such services/techniques at home, or at locations/organizations that are more apt to "turning a blind eye" such as Universities.

The point is, if somebody is absolutely determined to know what you are doing and they have the resources then they can do it. If that person doesn't care or has only mild interest (little time/insufficient resources/lack of knowledge etc), then you may require only the simplest of tools to ensure some basic security/privacy.

I think we can sum up by saying that if you're afraid of getting caught doing something, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. If you don't care about the consequences then why go to all the trouble at all?

ottosykora
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the example with skype

is realistic, we had this problem really.

The thing is, the actual traffic of skype is somehow passing sometimes (since kind of encrypted), but if you are in certain country, entering www.skype.com will produce nothing . The destination, as found in the DNS is actively blocked by the ISP/gov filtering for what ever reason.

If you use VPN connection to a server outside the country, the you have no problems.
So this might be real use, but still it is two network tool, needing two parts to set it up.

And so it ends up in numerous commercial services, just maintaining a server, listening for calls from clients from somewhere behind the great firewall.

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

weringpeter
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Best way?

Otto, thank you for your vpn explanation.

There are many ways, but I don't know which is best.

What if I use my own computer and instal tor or vpn on it?
What if I just use my computer with something like anonymouse.org.
What if I also buy a dedicated proxy server.

So if you were in my shoes, which way would you go?
Do you have any better solution than the ones I mentioned above?

To recap: I want a fast anonymous connection to the web with encryption and anonimization of the data that is sent and received.
What is in your oppinion the best solution for this?

Whatever is good, is not bad.

ottosykora
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still the same thing

there is no solution for you want, period.

If you use a computer inside a local network, as work, cyber cafe etc, admin of that network can see, log and record all you are doing.
I tried to explain it few times already.

You seems still not understand what for example a VPN is. If you install a VPN on your computer, nothing will happen at all except you have some more space occupied on your hard disk.
If you have some server at the other end, the admin of which will open the connection on the router (provided the router is capable of it ) and will run proper service on that server, you can have connection to that server as if this server was part of your local network. This is all, nothing more will happen. Installation of a mail client does not automatically provide you with a mail account on a mail server, does it?

I gave you an example of practical use of VPN, so this has nothing to do with hiding what you surf etc.

BTW: why do you want install any VPN on your computer? Current operating systems have this included.

If you install tor, you can communicate via tor network with web servers. Note that some features of a browser will have to be switched off, since tor will not be able to transmit and receive it or better said tor will have no point then since such plugin and extensions will communicate with internet on their own, bypassing the tor network completely. In fact installing tor-button will disable many plugins and extensions in firefox for example.

How the tor works I tried to explain you previously. It is also no solution for you, since still your admin in the local network can see, log and record all you are doing regardless if you are using tor or not.

Same is about proxy server etc. In properly managed networks, common web proxies are blacklisted, the traffic to them blocked. You can set up own one somewhere, but what for? Do you know how to arrange for static IP address so you can rwach your server from everywhere? To establish a VPN connection to it? Will the local network allow you to establish such link? Will the admin agree?
But then, your boss, your admin can still see, log and record what ever you do on your computer.
So again, no solution.

Things like anonymouse.org are just one of the services I mentioned, 'twisting' the requests to webservers. It makes slightly similar job as tor as a result, but it has nothing to do with real encryption as tor does.
Again: your boss, your admin can see, log and record all with no restriction as long as you use their network share.
No solution again.

So best solution:
work according to the rules of your company, IT department etc. None of the ways you mentioned is any help at all.

You can do it the same way as I do:
no private computers, no private mails, no mobile phones, no cameras, nothing.
Only mail is coming from the company intranet network, surfing via companys well guarded and filtered gateway from dedicated terminals, no private usb sticks etc.

The rest I do evenings at home, there all is allowed.

Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland

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