I posted this in the PortableApps.com Platform section but moved it here.
Im going to run my PA install from a separate partition on my main hard drive. So I need some suggestions.Not a long discussion since theres plenty of similar threads with differing information
1) Logical or Primary? Im guessing it needs to be logical right?
2) Fat, Fat32, or exFat (new xp plugin)->https://portableapps.com/node/18054
3) Best Cluster size?
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"Im going to run my PA install from a separate partition on my main hard drive."
Why? PA runs fine from it's own folder.
"1) Logical or Primary? Im guessing it needs to be logical right?"
Doesn't matter, your not booting the partition or PA.
"2) Fat, Fat32, or exFat (new xp plugin)->https://portableapps.com/node/18054"
Whatever is best for your OS and harddrive. Personally I recommend NTFS.
"3) Best Cluster size?"
Whatever is best for your OS and harddrive.
"Not a long discussion"
Short enough for you?
Ed
You basically could have replied with one word "NTFS" and it would have wasted less of my time
I made a separate partition for PApps because I wanted to and I can.That way its essentially a virtual flash drive on my hard drive.All its settings and folders are safe from any corruption or accidental computer process which could compromise them.
And when I want to transfer it to a flash drive I just clone the image.
1) I was hoping for alittle bit more than "do whatever you want,it doesnt matter" in regards to my primary or logical question.I just made it primary since I couldnt find any info on this forum about proper format.
2) I dont know why you would reply to this topic only to tell me "whatever is best for you"
My OS is Windows XP pro 64bit
My hard disk is Seagate ST3160812AS (160GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148105
But I decided to go with NTFS after looking at this thread https://portableapps.com/node/21286
3) If you dont have anything to add then why reply?
when I was referring to long discussions I was referring to ones like the one I linked too
https://portableapps.com/node/21286
I also didnt want someone to just say nothing at all
"All its settings and folders are safe from any corruption or accidental computer process which could compromise them."
That is simply not true.
"And when I want to transfer it to a flash drive I just clone the image."
That's not true either if talking a true cloning of a hard drive partition. However, simply XCOPYing the PA folder to a flash drive is all that's needed to put it on a flash drive.
"I dont know why you would reply to this topic only to tell me "whatever is best for you""
Did you want me to lie and tell you your ideas were the cleverest ever? Sorry that's not true either. There is absolutely no reason to put the PA folder on a separate partition of a Windows system nearing EOL.
"I also didnt want someone to just say nothing at all"
No, you wanted someone to think your ideas were wonderful. Sorry, not true.
Ed
Of course theres no full proof way to protect your data on a hard drive.Thats data storage basics 101. I figured everyone in this forum understood that as a prerequisite before I posted. I would have used the word "safer" instead of "safe" if I knew you were going to go through my reply with a fine tooth comb since you love to troll this forum and have nothing else better to do.get a life dude.
And then again you focus on one word "clone" which I was simply saying I could "copy" it over.This is a post about setting up my harddrive not copying.Thats a whole different conversation.Again your fishing for things to talk shit about.Im fully aware all I have to do is copy it over.
Look man you replied to my topic to talk shit because you have nothing else better to do.Theres plenty of people on here who put their PA install on a separate partition, with plenty of reasons for it.And this isnt about whether you think theirs a reason or not.If you dont like it then STOP CREEPING AND TROLLING IN MY POST.and my OS also has nothing to do with this either.And I have a minimal install XP pro 64 that runs just fine for my needs.Again this post is not a question about which OS is better.
At what point does my post have the image of somebody who is trying to boost their idea?
your a fool and a troll.if you dont like my ideas then move on
Keep it nice. Ed_P was only here to help. I'm not going to bring in my opinions, but I am going to point out that our forum rules do not allow swearing or slandering.
You and everyone else know that he was not trying to help at all.If you do then I dont know what world you guys live in where being snide, condescending, and histrionic is considered helping anything.This is a common problem in this very forum.Ive dealt with it before.Ive never had as many problems with trolls in my 12 years of using forums as I have had here.the only other place i had issues was a gameboy hacking forum.Doesnt speak much for most of the trolls here does it
I could school you both on manners right now but I unlike the two of you have MUCH Better things to do than to feed trolls.And in case you are unaware what a Troll is here
In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
heres some examples
"Did you want me to lie and tell you your ideas were the cleverest ever? Sorry that's not true either. There is absolutely no reason to put the PA folder on a separate partition of a Windows system nearing EOL."
"No, you wanted someone to think your ideas were wonderful. Sorry, not true."
If that is not insulting ,and slanderous I dont know what is.BUt I guess you two must be pals thats why your siding with him
"In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
"your a fool and a troll.if you dont like my ideas then move on"
LOL
Ed
1) Doesn't matter on this particular case, unless you plan to have more than one Windows or BSD system installed (both of these systems need to be installed in primary partitions, and you can have only 3 of these).
2) NTFS seems to be the more recommended for hard drives.
3) It depends on the size of the files stored on the partition; quoting Wikipedia:
I could write a script to get statistical data about this; I just need one of these folks who downloaded everything to volunteer.
Previously known as kAlug.
1) ok then let me extrapolate my sitution. Yes I have a Multi-Boot harddrive. I have XP Pro 64 on the first partition, Vista Ultimate 64 on the second, and intend on installing Ubuntu 12.10 64 on the third.And a fourth NTFS for storage to be accessed by all three. So does that mean I need to make this one logical?
2) Thanks for your suggestion.I went with NTFS because of numerous recommendations and articles on the net.And the final deciding factor was when i read that true crypt needs a NTFS volume to work.Since i may use that later I decided to go with NTFS for the time being.
3) again thank you for your consideration!! Since portable apps usually installs numerous small files and I also need to make sure and not waste to much free space with cluster size. I decided to go with 8k instead of 4k and might increase to 16k.
"this larger cluster size reduces bookkeeping overhead and fragmentation, which may improve reading and writing speed overall."
Ill sacrifice some space for speed and reliability since its recommended not to defragment flash drives.
what script are you mentioning?or is that a signature?
Thanks again for all your help
"Ill sacrifice some space for speed and reliability since its recommended not to defragment flash drives."
A partition on a hard drive is not the same as a flash drive. Or are you using the wrong words again?
"I have XP Pro 64 on the first partition, Vista Ultimate 64 on the second, and intend on installing Ubuntu 12.10 64 on the third.And a fourth NTFS for storage to be accessed by all three. So does that mean I need to make this one logical?"
Booting normally requires a Primary partition. So your storage and PA partitions should be Logical.
"1)if your system partition gets corrupted or compromised it doesn't leak over to other partitions"
That is not true.
"2)if my computer gets a virus or malware they dont install onto the other partitions"
I don't know where you're getting these ideas but they are wrong.
"if you dont like my ideas then move on"
And if you don't like our answers ....
Ed
1) Yes. Also, remember to leave all the remaining free space on the disk after the logical partition, else you won't be able to create any other partitions.
2) That's definitely not true. TrueCrypt doesn't care with the filesystem you're using (maybe it does regarding the system partition, but just in there). As an example, all my encrypted flash drives are formatted with UDF.
3) 4K seems to be a more reasonable choice here.
As for the script, I meant I could write a script to determine the best cluster size for a portable apps install.
Previously known as kAlug.
But if you want to make a large enough truecrypt container, you need NTFS due to Fat32's file size limit of 4 gb.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
But I thought he was talking about encrypting the whole partition.
Previously known as kAlug.
I can also tell you that in this case you are too much thinking of things that are irrelevant in terms of computers in 2013. We are not in the 90ties when one had to consider all sorts of things.
You have an operating system, this is rather reliable, and has all the components included you need.
So if you are not sure where is the difference between primary and logical partition, then do not bother and let it do your OS. Same for formating etc. If you are not sure about the differences between the file systems, let it do the OS, it will choose the right one for that purpose.
Otherwise:
any non operating system drives are commonly created as logical drives in MBR based systems (XP is one of them)
Data drives (and dedicated portable apps drive is such) can be formated in NTFS best or FAT32 if smaller then 32G by windows.
The clusters will be set by operating system when formating.
The links you were following are concerning formating of USB drives and this is rather different story as those drives must be moved from one system to other.
And yes, thinking that separate partition gives you any sort of extra protection for the contents of that partition, then can just tell you: do not believe all urban stories circulating around.
Otto Sykora
Basel, Switzerland
First of all, this is not a post about whether or not my OS is reliable, what decade had better software,or what the differences between logical or primary partitions are.
This is a forum about "PORTABLE APPS" so since I didnt write the software I do not know all the parameters or environment in which it functions best.So even basic computing behavior comes under question when using this platform.
But thank you for your advice. thanks to your input and Aluísio's. I think IM going to change my primary partition to a logical one since i intend on having 4 primary partitions (3 OS, 1 storage).And your the second person to recommend NTFS. Since No one I know uses anything below XP I should be fine if i copy the partition to a USB stick.
Windows defaults dont always provide optimized results ,hence the reason I want to choose my formatting and cluster options based on other peoples mileage and experience.
Although those link are in regards to formatting usb drives.the whole reason Im even using Portable Apps is because I want the portability to copy the partition to a usb stick or another computer at any given time or to synch the entire folder.
And yes using a separate partition does give you extra protection.But this thread is not about why or how safe it is to have a separate partition.Its only about the format,cluster,and partition type.please stay focused
1)if your system partition gets corrupted or compromised it doesn't leak over to other partitions
2)if my computer gets a virus or malware they dont install onto the other partitions
3) if I install something that writes all sorts of junk files to my drive it doesnt copy things to the PA partition
3) everything done on the PA partition stays on it like a sandbox environment.Since it thinks its running on a root drive
4) its just less messy when trying to copy and move things around
I could go on,but theres lots of anal retentive reasons to do this
Thanks for your topic related input
I think the earlier response was about protection from a virus, since a virus will infect your portable apps just like your regular apps, or a hard drive failure as a separate partition won't protect you from either. You're quite right about some of the other points, though, like if your main partition goes corrupt or the OS doesn't boot, you could wipe and reinstall your OS partition and your portable apps and settings would stay intact. I take a similar approach with a separate partition for Data and portable apps as well.
As for copying files to/from your USB drive or similar, the drive's file system won't really matter as you can just as easily copy your portable apps and all settings from your internal NTFS drive to an external FAT32 drive as to an external NTFS drive. I believe NTFS for internal is best. For external, there is the argument about compatibility, as NTFS formatted external drives can have permissions issues as you move PCs.
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!
Im guessing your saying that Ottosykora was saying having a partition will not protect the files in it from a virus,or from physical hard drive failure.Which is correct. But Since this topic wasnt about security, or protection Im keeping my comments about safety to a general sense and minimum.
The original reason I installed PApps to a separate partition was in case I needed to reinstall my OS, or it has boot issues.
So you have your storage and PApps on logical or primary partitions?
As for coping to another drive.Sounds like NTFS is fine for internal like you said,and Fat32 is better for external drives since its more compatible with other systems
Thanks again for your valued advice!!!
I keep my data and portable apps on a logical partition with the OS on primary. That way I can add dual or tri boot without needing to move them later.
As for external, NTFS will work just fine, you just need to be sure to set the security for the whole drive with Everyone having Full Control. The issue crops up most often when drives move from XP to Vista or later as XP vs Vista/7/8 treat NTFS partitions on an external drive slightly differently.
You're welcome
Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!