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[11.2] to [12b2] Update Fails (Auto and Manual)

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GµårÐïåñ
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[11.2] to [12b2] Update Fails (Auto and Manual)

Problem:
--------
1. Installed 11.2 fresh on a new drive
2. After install is complete, it prompts for update to 12.0 beta 2
http://pa.myguardian.net/12b2_update.png
3. Update completes to 12b2 and then autoupdate fails silently (with appropriate switch it throws error)
http://pa.myguardian.net/12b2_update_error.png
4. Manually checking for update results in the same error

Environment:
------------
1. No firewall (software or hardware - software firewall was configured with full access for this application but was disabled for the testing)
2. Packet Tracer and DPI show no communication initiated by the application

Expected Behavior:
------------------
1. Auto update functions as normal
2. If auto fails, manual should work as normal
3. 11.2 update works fine auto and manual
4. 12.b2 update results in failed auto and manual update

My System:
----------
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
8 GB RAM on Intel Core
500 GB SATA-II drive with 285 GB Free
Patriot Rage XT 64 GB USB 3.0

Specific Request:
-----------------
"full install path" = X:\ ("Patriot Rage XT 64 GB USB 3.0")
"full OS version" = "Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1" (6.1.7601)
"new vs upgrade" = "clean 11.2 install" (auto upgraded to 12.0 b2)
"whether a clean install" = Formatted and "clean installed 11.2" (as stated before - 11.2 then updater to 12.b2)
"tried running it on another PC" = Yes. Windows XP Home Premium - same result, XP Professional SP3, same result, Windows 7 Ultimate x86 - same result, Windows 8 Professional - too many errors to deal with right now, I could try Vista but not today, I can try 2000 but not today, I can try 2003 R2 but not today.

Config:
-------
[DisplayOptions]
Language=English
LargeFonts=False
HideDesktopIcons=False
UseCategories=True
ShowAllApps=True
KeyboardFriendly=False
CollapseOtherFoldersOnExpand=True
ExpandCategoriesByDefault=False
DisableScrollBar=False
HidePortableInAppNames=True
BoldFolderNames=False
DisableSplashScreens=True
BoldFavorites=True
GlobalHotKey=CTRL-ALT-SPACE
Theme=DefaultDark
ThemeColor=Black
ThemeCustomColor=
StartPositionHorizontal=Right
StartPositionVertical=Bottom
AlphaBlendMain=255
Windows7TaskbarIcon=false
[Localization]
DisableAppLanguageSwitching=False
[Updater]
UpdateAutomatically=True
BetaPlatformReleases=True
ShowStartupModeErrors=True

John T. Haller
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Clarifications and Next Steps

1. To clarify, are you saying a CLEAN install of 11.2 (not an upgrade) automatically prompts you to install 12.0 Beta 2 without you making any additional options changes? It should absolutely not do this (it should only prompt for stable upgrades by default) and I asked about it previously. I want to ensure this isn't happening as this would be a bug in and of itself.

2. Have you tried a CLEAN install of 12.0 Beta 2 (NOT an upgrade from 11.2 but a manual download and clean install of 12.0 Beta 2)? This will help us rule out issues of 11.2 settings being upgraded to 12.0 Beta 2.

3. Have you tried the platform installed locally, not on this drive? Just download and install 12.0 Beta 2 directly to your Desktop and run it, you can easily delete it later. This will help us rule out issues with your drive.

4. Have you tried running this on a machine without a packet tracer or similar installed to ensure that is not the problem? This will help us rule out the packet tracer.

5. If your drive is formatted as NTFS have you ensured that 'Everyone' has 'Full Access'? If not, right-click on the drive in Windows Explorer, select Options from the Properties from the popup menu, select the Security tab. In the list of users you should see Everyone and when you click it Full Control should have a check under Allow. If not, click Edit, then Add, type Everyone and click OK, check off Allow next to Full Control, click Apply.

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GµårÐïåñ
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New Information

Ok, I will give you a bunch of new updates, that should answer most of your questions but if not, then I will address them individually.

1. I downloaded [PortableApps.com_Platform_Setup_12.0_Beta_2.paf.exe] installer on its own instead of going through the 11.2 to 12.b2 update path

2. Installed it over the existing setup and encountered the same problem

3. I deleted the PortableApps.com folder in PortableApps directory

4. Installed #1 again

5. I ran it and automatically (yes by itself without modifying the settings) it pops up and offers updates to software (http://pa.myguardian.net/default_12b2_firstrun)

6. I clicked next and it attempted to download/install everything and it threw an error (http://pa.myguardian.net/during_update_fails.png) and I continued (http://pa.myguardian.net/continue_after_error.png)

7. The setting files are (http://pa.myguardian.net/auto_Update.ini) and (http://pa.myguardian.net/default_PortableAppsMenu.ini) and it finished but with that one error (http://pa.myguardian.net/update_finishes_with-error.png)

8. I ran the update manually again and it showed the item that was missed and attempted to install it again (http://pa.myguardian.net/manual_update.png) and after a bit, it finished (http://pa.myguardian.net/manual_Update.ini) and (http://pa.myguardian.net/manual_update_done.png)

So far so good. Now comes that ghost in the machine that is pissing me off

9. So I modified my settings (configured it the way I like it) as follows (http://pa.myguardian.net/modified_PortableAppsMenu.ini) Nothing magical here, you can compare it to the default.

10. I ran the application and it instantly fails on auto update (http://pa.myguardian.net/modified_start_auto-update_error.png) so I tried to do a manual update and again same thing.

SO WHAT IN THE HELL? I did a lot more than I have listed here but it was too much of a mess to try and screenshot and share all of it, so I just shared the ones relating to a CLEAN 12.0 beta 2 install and that's all. So what could possibly have changed in the settings to cause this to happen? Now even if I load the default ini again, it won't work, its stuck on this error and won't budge. I have concluded that somehow when the updates are APPLIED by the updater, it breaks something afterwards. I don't know why or what, but anecdotal evidence suggests that's the problem, cause the other tests I performed before seem to support this, for example the 11.2 clean install that updated to 12.0 b2 and stopped working. Now its in your hands.

Drive is NOT NTFS and therefore permissions are not an issue (http://pa.myguardian.net/drive_info.png)

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John T. Haller
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Local Install

One other thing. Please install it locally, to the Desktop or similar, and avoid this drive altogether and see if it works properly. You can delete when done. You can copy one of your outdated apps in to trigger the updater if you want.

Also, you mentioned two machines. What are they? Is one Win8 and one WinXP. Not sure what you mean by 'ghost machine'.

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GµårÐïåñ
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In the morning

I will install it and see. At the moment the apps are updated but I think I can find one.

I have tested on WinXP HomeP, Pro, Win7 Starter, Win7 Ultimate x64 and x86, I can test on Win2k and Win2k3 tomorrow (or this morning I should say).

The ghost in the machine is a reference to a problem in the logic somewhere that creeps up and affects things without apparent symptom Smile

Ghost in the Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_machine) was about René Descartes' mind-body dualism often referred to by AI programmers like myself as that spark of unknown in the system. Sorry for the confusion.

PS: What in the hell is with this constant asking for word verification, it gets so annoying given that I am a verified and regular poster.

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Username or IP

It's likely your username (due to unusual characters) or your IP. It's entirely automated.

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Gord Caswell
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spam filter

RE: Word verification - it's part of the spam filter, and activates when one of a few things happens, specifically I see it popping up when I post links, so that's likely what you're seeing as well.

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I know

I figure as much, but we also don't spam filter known and reputable users, only the new ones below a certain number of posts or membership. To apply it to everyone indiscriminately is a bit of a lazy overreach.

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Finally Tested

Ok, I tested it on the machine itself by installing it on the desktop and running it from there. On the first run after the start it went online and showed the list of apps to pick and so on. Fine so far. I ran the updater manually and it worked fine.

I then made the usual modifications to the settings, like I have posted before and immediately after that when auto or manual checking for updates, it gives the following error: http://pa.myguardian.net/desktop_test_fails.png

So where does that leave us now?

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John T. Haller
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Direct vs Automatic

Why are you changing the connection method from automatic to direct?

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Didn't get notified

Sorry for the delay, I didn't get notified by the forum about your post, I just came here to follow-up and saw your post.

I ALWAYS for ANY application will choose direct, because its direct with no proxy instead of automatic. Why would that even matter?

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Automatic

Choose automatic and it will work again. Automatic is based on Windows' Internet Connection settings and should only be changed if there is something preventing that from working properly.

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Why?

Why should that matter John. Direct is in fact the most straight to do without requiring discovery. Even in IE when you have a choice between automatically discover or not, its preferred you choose not. Same as any internet connecting software. So why should this setting matter? Unless its using something besides the direct connection, why should it care?

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John T. Haller
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Switch It

Switch it and it will work. Stop switching it to direct. That's why a fresh install works and it stops working as soon as you apply your whole set of settings all at once. Direct likely has issues in the inetc component in conjunction with something else on your system. I nearly left 'direct' out of the GUI as we really only wanted to add the ability for some folks to manually config a proxy and having it as another option causes more problems than it solves.

The entire reason it works in 11.2 and not 12.0 Beta is because 11.2 doesn't support that setting and is using automatic.

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GµårÐïåñ
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Not an answer

John, I did change it and yes it does work now and I had shared these settings of mine since the beginning, so why not say anything then? Why drag it out so much? And once again you say there is something on my system that is messing it up in conjunction and that's simply not true. I am willing to send you a complete image of my system, you mount it and you and I can go through it live with each other and you point out to me what's on my machine that's causing it. That's just scapegoating to place the blame on some phantom thing and that's just bad support practice.

This makes absolutely no sense, since direct is what it is, so even in automatic, its ultimately doing it direct since there is nothing else for it to automatically do anything about. This makes absolutely no sense and unless you can give me some technical information that explains it, we are dwelling in vague explanations that make no sense.

Do I really need to dig through the code to find out how the value is being passed to what you have stated is an independent and unmodified code you use from inetc? With all due respect and no insult or offense intended to you, this is the most absurd thing I have heard about simple TCP connections not working directly with no proxy or intermediary between PC1 - ISP - CLOUD - SERVER.

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It's a Beta, It's a Bug, I Can Fix It

Honestly, this is why it's called a BETA. There will be bugs. And this is one. These could not have been your settings the whole time because 11.2 and earlier have no option to do direct vs automatic vs manual proxy. They're all just set in automatic mode. So, these issues started occurring for you when you changed it to direct with a 12.0 beta build. And happen consistently every time you set it as direct. I'm not sure how that fact was missed, but it was. This was one of the reasons I kept asking you to do a clean install without your settings file. I wasn't dragging this out, just trying to get to the bottom of it.

I finally had a chance to test out 'direct' in 12.0 Beta 2 on one of my machines tonight, and it fails to work here, too. I tracked down the bug as well, and it seems to be a parsing issue with NSIS and inetc passing it. The specific line begins:

inetc::get $strConnectionString/CONNECTTIMEOUT 30 ...

This works fine with automatic as $strConnectionString is blank. But, when the string is set to "/NOPROXY ", it fails with a URL PARTS ERROR. Now, conversely, if I code it as:

inetc::get $strConnectionString /CONNECTTIMEOUT 30 ...

This works with "/NOPROXY " in $strConnectionString even though it should not since there should be two spaces and it should break the call. It does, however, fail when in automatic mode and $strConnectionString is blank because there are two spaces between inetc::get and /CONNECTIONTIMEOUT. It shouldn't work this way between NSIS and a component being called, but it does. Why is a question left for the NSIS team.

So, the workaround is part of what I was already doing in Beta 3 anyway and have the whole connection string in a variable. It was repeated due to quick and dirty code last year when I hacked together Beta 1/2.

The end result is it will be fixed in Beta 3. For now, set it in automatic mode.

For future reports, let's try and stick to the facts and go down the checklist one piece at a time. Dropping in a ton of changes all at once was our downfall and why I missed the direct setting. If any of my previous responses bugged you, please temper your reading of them with the fact that I'm the only one working on this code, the only one troubleshooting bugs in it, splitting that with everything else I do for PA.c, and I have to pay entirely too much money for the privilege of doing all this work (in the form of my personal funds keeping this site/project going).

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

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Thank you

Ok John, first off, let me say that I am only interested in helping this software be the best it can be, I have no interest in giving you a hard time, making your life difficult or be an ass, despite how it might seem or what you might feel. Please know that. If I didn't care about this project, I wouldn't spend this much time trying to figure it out. Just wanted you to know that for the record.

I know its a beta and bugs are bugs. I am aware of that and well fine with it, I have been a developer way too long on the bleeding edge not to know, accept and be ok with that. Its the price of progress. Not faulting you or the software for that but when someone says its a bug, and told no you do did something wrong, it feels less than genuine at times.

For the record, the settings were not there in 11.2 but your deduction on how it broke because I messed with the setting after the update is false. The update was prompted, I installed it and then on restart it failed to update and manual failed. I checked the options to see if anything had changed to cause that, saw the connection tab and decided if auto is not doing it maybe direct would bypass whatever its trying to do and work, it didn't and that's where we began our debugging. In the future debugs, I simply maintained the same settings for the sake of keeping the environment configuration the same (since I had posted my settings and you didn't say don't do that). Also, you are implying that you asked for clean install and I didn't do it and kept using my settings file. You are wrong once again. I did do a clean install, I didn't put my settings file in there, I simply changed them through the interface to match the previous settings I had chosen to remain consistent as stated already. Again because at no point of seeing my settings repeatedly did you say, that's buggy don't do that.

You are right, that doesn't seem right, it seems its a parsing issue on the side of the inetc people and that might have something to do with the way they are stripping it, best to let them handle it. But glad to hear that you were able to reproduce it and you will be including a fix for it. In the meantime and probably for the foreseeable future, I will leave it on automatic but would be grateful if you have any updates and figure out what's wrong on the inetc side to share. I am always a sucker for code/debug/bug and so on.

I will take the blame on the information overload and I do understand you are a one man shop, I was for over 7 years too when I started in 1989 so I am very sympathetic to the stress. See my opening comment to know that I more than temper it and by no means did I mean any offense and hope you didn't take it that way.

As for your costs, send me an email, tell me what they are and I may be able to offer resources and even my own time to help you gladly and with no strings. I can help you with fresh eyes on the code debugging. Optimizing and testing. I can help you with support if you like. I even have a custom theme based on your default dark that I think you would love and probably could include, many would love it, trust me. Its minimalist chic. I CAN and would love to help you, just say the word.

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GµårÐïåñ
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Username?

The username has no bearing on this situation given that its only for the online forum and the installation has no username. It can't be the IP because frankly it changes so every IP cannot be bad.

EDIT, I just realized you might have meant that in response to the forum captcha that I mentioned, sorry for the confusion. I don't think that should have anything to do with it given that I use this handle for nearly 2 decades and all over the web as my primary and never ran into this issue anywhere else. Specially that it is not part of the submission or the content of the post.

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