Hi all,
I really like the idea of Portable Apps, and have been using Firefox and Thunderbird on my USB stick for a while now. However, I'm starting to think that this method of using external/additional hardware like USB sticks to run your applications is not the future of portable apps. As Google would probably tell you, hosted applications is the way forward, and I agree. I don't want to have to plug in my USB stick, along with all my keys that are attached to it, just to check my email, especially when I don't really want my boss to notice I'm doing it!
What would be ideal is to have all these apps hosted on the web so they are beyond portable, so portable that they only exist on the internet when you want them to exist! I have recently started working for a company that hosts an entire Project Management program, and all the clients can access absolutely everything about their business just by logging into a webpage. No need for client-side software or hardware, and I really do think this is, or could be, the future for computing software.
I haven't done any research into other current services that offer this sort of thing. I know of meebo (www.meebo.com) that offers web based MSN/ICQ etc and works well. You can get Outlook hosted on the web, and the new Hotmail is looking very similar to Outlook. LogMeIn have been doing web-based remote desktop for ages. Can anyone point me in the direction of more services like this?
Basically, in this age of high speed internet, I don't see the need for installing software or carrying USB sticks around. Everything should be accessible through the internet. We don't need client PCs any more, just 'terminals', to log us into our own virtual desktop on the web, so to speak.
What are your thoughts?
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I don't like the idea because of security issues. Basically, I don't have enough trust in web-based stuff. If you want to access everything from everywhere, you would most likely have to use a browser to access your stuff. And the possibilities of todays browsers are too limited for me.
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
Yeah, I'd rather be able to be "off grid."
Even in the "terminal" analogy, you need a PC with a browser. Well, I'd rather use my own browser and know exactly what its doing when I login. Maybe have some apps on the stick to make sure there isn't anything fishy on the "terminal."
I don't necessarily disagree with the original poster - there is a growing market for that kind of thing. Maybe even it will be preferable to the majority of users. But for me, I don't like abdicating my own security like that.
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Sic semper tyrannosauro.
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Sic semper tyrannosauro.
That is a good idea, and I would actually support it 100% except for one thing. Hackers. They could access all of your files and e-mail, possibly credit card numbers, etc. But, on the other hand, it would be quite convenient to not have to burn CDs, carry around a thumb drive, but to just have the files readily available on the net.
I definitely don't want google to access my documents. On my pendrive they are safe.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
If you don't want your boss to notice you plugging in your USB stick with your keys attached, take it off your key chain. It's not that hard. Or get one of those key chains that you can un-attach one end from the keys. They're not expensive at all. Hell, get one here on eBay for 1.99
edit: Didn't mean to knock you like that. What I'm really saying is, once you have something you've created whether it's work related or just private/personal, and you host it on a site, it's not longer private/personal. I personally like to have my work readily available on my USB stick, but if all else fails, I do have RemotelyAnywhere running on my home computer which gives me access to anything in case of the need. So, I'm with you on that, but not webapps
~.Maurits
~.Maurits
I see how for software I use on the job, where the data belongs to the employer, a web-based app is a good solution. They control the data and the software and everything's great.
I know your point wasn't only about the pendrive being on your keychain with your boss watching. It's their computer and some day they could disable the USB port and then you're back in the stone age. But they can also control which sites you visit. We're pretty much at the mercy of our employers as far as what we can and cannot do.
Anyway, for security reasons and for places without internet access, I want to keep my software and data in my hands only.
My concern is a little different. While I'm a huge fan of what John and Ryan (and others I'm sure, but I don't know your names) are doing here, there's a lot of software out there, and I'm starting to see signs that they just can't keep up with the demands of the community (they've got 500,000 hits a day, spammers, legal issues, support forums and a lot of other things (like a personal life) that keep them from doing what we want them to do - provide portable apps)
I hope that software developers see the trend, and produce portable versions of their software out of the box, such as FastStone Image Viewer, in which case, John et al can take satisfaction in knowing they single-handedly changed the software world, but can move on to solve the next problem.
these projects never succeed, software as a web service is simply not right, notice the whole amount of privacy issues there, even if the intentions from the youOS guys are good, their server could always have a vulnerability and get hacked thus acquiring all the files really easily.
I have been using portable software for about 2mos now and the program that John has came up with is very handy to have...now is this going to replace laptops or PDA's?? Prolly not. But it is an outstanding thing to have if you are a student/teacher or even an exec that wants to keep documents, fav's or other documentation on a small portable device.......and you can keep stuff on your thumb drive nice & secure (if you encrypt it) and off the laptop just incase your laptop gets stolen.....I have found this a valuable tool....I wish I found this site sooner.....
I promote this website to students, teachers and exec's that ask for it....
everyone that works to develop these apps does an awesome job....keep up the great work.....!!!!!!!
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Pressure - It can turn a lump of coal into a flawless diamond, or an average person into a perfect basketcase
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Pressure - It can turn a lump of coal into a flawless diamond, or an average person into a perfect basketcase
I totally understand the security concerns you guys are raising. I too like having things on my USB because it, like many of you point out, is a local, private and personal store for my data, and I can be sure that no-one can see it without my prior consent.
However, computing changes, and something that is regarded as insecure now will, I am certain, be improved over time and will be acceptable. What about other forms of privacy that we have allowed to become part of our lives these days? It's everywhere we look - ID cards, IP logging, mobile phone tracking - bad examples but the fact is that every year we sacrifice more privacy as routine, it is perhaps just slightly more subtle and so we don't mind so much. In the same vain, I am sure that online security will improve and people will not mind storing their data online. Like I said in my first post, our clients allow us, via the most secure and reliable servers in the U.K. (as far as I'm aware), to host ALL of their user data. Every single bit. You may argue that this isn't secure, and maybe one day a hack will take place, but even if it does it will only force security to be improved yet again.
My point is that even if we are worried about security now, our standards will inevitably change and our expectatios will raise, so bearing that in mind I still reckon that hosted apps are the future. Think long term, not short term. Imagine a system without drivers, upgrades, technical support call-outs, compatibility issues, harware problems & upgrades, or anything like that. I'm sure it's the future. I fully agree that security is the primary concern and we have every right to fight for our privacy, but in time both privacy and connectivity can surely live as one on the internet (or whatever the Internet becomes)?
Unfortunately, and for the very reasons that you specified, I fear that what will ultimately happen is that over time our expectation of privacy will erode, much like it is already eroding. Soon, due to technology like RFID, cell phones, On-Star, preferred customer/fast pay cards, on-board blackboxes in cars, etc., etc. privacy will become a memory.
It will be nothing to see personalized digital billboard ads that sense your approach. Someone will know where you are at all times and what you spend your money on. Just as many of the above have already become common place and we've sold our privacy for double-coupons at the gas station or grocery, the next generation will never have known a time when they weren't under constant surveillance and will take it for granted. Privacy as we know/knew it will not exist, and therefore it will no longer matter where their data is stored.
I believe that this outcome is inevitable, however, I will do nothing to help it along! Keep your 3 for a dollar coupons!
Also, let's not forget the recent NSA internet and telephone wiretapping fiasco and the fact that they are trying to force ISPs to retain ALL data/logs for two years... and on and on....
OK... Sorry, for that rant... A subject I am passionately about, that's all!
DrHook
Most simple apps could go web based.
But for complex apps e.g. office suites (with full functionality), image editors, programming tools
or things like media players, programming editors
they will always work best running off your local hard drive.
Things that need big computional power and a little data to transfer (like image editors / programming tools) would benefit most from it - fast processors (and graphics cards) are the main things that make computers big, hot and loud.
So moving this things to google facilities would be nice. But moving them to the basement would be much better
Media players - you may be right because they need fast internet connections to be streamed with high quality...but connection speeds will grow.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." Asimov
Okay, but...
How are you planning to access those websites where your online apps are stored? Hope that the computer you're using has something nicer than the default Internet Explorer? Don't want to have to memorize every single webpage address to access these apps? Tired of typing in your password?
Sounds like a job for... Firefox Portable!
I've been thinking about that, although I don't know why you mention more than one site that stores online apps. In terms of near-future stuff, I am thinking of a single portal that would appear in any browser and give you access to both other websites/bookmarks, and also online applications. It would all be run from within one page. I'm not going to elaborate further in case someone nicks my ideas hehe, I want to make lots of money from this one day!
However, I think a lot of people here are thinking far too short-term. You gotta think about 50 years or 100 years ahead, for me there is no doubt at all that everything computery will be run off the net, and if you disagree, you may well get left behind.
I have read a lot here about the web based and gotta comment that where you work may keep a log of the web sites you visit so you will not be off the grid, as well as some programs leave traces in the browser and on the computer in different places, the user would have to become an expert at erasing these traces. I think this crrent idea is better, using flash or portable HD
There are many ways of tunneling out to an external PC and doing anything you want securely. Hamachi, for example. SSH. I am not an expert on secure tunneling but from what I hear it is the best, and not too difficult, way of hiding your traffic from unwanted viewers. All the admins will see is data going to an IP address, which won't even be yours, if you use something like Hamachi, which provides secure anonymous public IP addresses. They won't have a clue what sort of data it is as it is all nicely hidden inside the 'tunnel'.
I am going to try this out at work, using Hamachi to tunnel firefox and other apps to my home pc, and I will let you know how I get on!
Having said all that, I don't think this is a long term problem. Sure, for the short term we have these issues, but the speed at which remote access and online hosting is advancing, security will become second nature eventually, and we will all have easy, if not mandatory, secure access to any server we want.
You sit down at a keyboard, mouse, and monitor that all connect to their very own sockets in the wall. You punch in your user name and password and your very own customized desktop opens. Imagine that there are thousands of similiar terminals all over the world and you can access the same desktop from literally anywhere, even on mobile devices that have color displays, like cell phones and palm pilots. Software is free and the only thing you have to pay for is internet access and the occasional terminal access fees for out of town, state, or country logins. And if anyone tries to hack and crack the system, their name and password (along with their full name, social security number, and finger prints) will be permenantly deleted and they will NEVER be able to access the net again as long as they live. It's the Internet of the future, probably around the year 2078.
comparison of features
Windows: empty pockets, slow computer, crippling malware, user level frustration, inability to meet deadlines, security holes
Linux: full pockets, super fast computer, endless software, endless customization, endless potential
I'm waiting for portable apps/ USB thumbdrive apps to be mentioned/used by Jack Bauer & Co. on my new favorite show "24"...
Seems as they would be quite handy for lifesaving hacking/cracking usage for someone like Jack, who finds himself "on the go" (read: on the RUN) so often.
P.S. - I only started watching 24 at the end of season 5, so if they were mentioned prior to that, I woulda of course, missed it.
However, IIRC that if 24 had featured them before this, I woulda seen it mentioned here on the forums
"I don't hate cats...as long as they stay on the freeway, where they belong."
- Brad Stine
However, not PortableApps, as all the computers on the show use a government Linux.
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Ryan McCue
Person 1: Oh my god. You will never believe what just happened.
Person 2: What?
Person 1: I can't remember, I've forgotten.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
@ rmccue
"...However, not PortableApps..."
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Actually, I was using the term - as indicated by lack of capitalization and separating it into 2 words - to refer to the overall category of apps that are portable, not John's proprietary implementation of it.
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"...as all the computers on the show use a government Linux."
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"Government Linux"?... Now THERE'S a distro I've never heard of.
My guess would be - since it's tailored to *gov't* usage - that it follows the Microshaft OS model (rather than the Torvalds OS model).
Which is to say, plenty of flaws, bugs, virii, security holes, uncovered backdoors, BSODs and the like to go around ("All you can eat", in fact...).
"I don't hate cats...as long as they stay on the freeway, where they belong."
- Brad Stine
Actually, I was using the term - as indicated by lack of capitalization and separating it into 2 words - to refer to the overall category of apps that are portable, not John's proprietary implementation of it.
I know, but on 24, USBs or data sticks have only been used to hold data, not software.
Also, it's not proprietary since it's open source. Anyone can improve on it.
"Government Linux"?... Now THERE'S a distro I've never heard of.
My guess would be - since it's tailored to *gov't* usage - that it follows the Microshaft OS model (rather than the Torvalds OS model).
Which is to say, plenty of flaws, bugs, virii, security holes, uncovered backdoors, BSODs and the like to go around ("All you can eat", in fact...).
What I meant was the systems are designed and operated by Homeland Security, based on what appears to be Linux.
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Ryan McCue
Person 1: Oh my god. You will never believe what just happened.
Person 2: What?
Person 1: I can't remember, I've forgotten.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
"Also, it's not proprietary since it's open source."
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No, the concept isn't proprietary, you are correct; rather, I was referring to the proper name "PortableApps", which *is* proprietary/copyrighted/trademarked/patented/encrypted/hermetically sealed/etc....
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"What I meant was the systems are designed and operated by Homeland Security, based on what appears to be Linux."
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I know that.
What *I* meant is, even Linux - if ported to official government usage - would no doubt soon take on the unsavory, rank, overripe aroma of Microshaft-like corruption, ineptitude, and incompetance...
"I don't hate cats...as long as they stay on the freeway, where they belong."
- Brad Stine
No, the concept isn't proprietary, you are correct; rather, I was referring to the proper name "PortableApps", which *is* proprietary/copyrighted/trademarked/patented/encrypted/hermetically sealed/etc....
Actually, the trademark is PortableApps.com™ I think
I know that.
What *I* meant is, even Linux - if ported to official government usage - would no doubt soon take on the unsavory, rank, overripe aroma of Microshaft-like corruption, ineptitude, and incompetance...
Meh. It's their problem, not ours
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Ryan McCue
Person 1: Oh my god. You will never believe what just happened.
Person 2: What?
Person 1: I can't remember, I've forgotten.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Wireless portable storage servers will be commonplace in 2-5 years. You have your drive in your pocket or briefcase, walk up to a PC, and your files are there BAM.
Check out eyeos or youos for an online desktop.
"Actually, the trademark is PortableApps.com™ I think"
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Well then, okey-dokey...I think
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"Meh. It's their problem, not ours"
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Unless gov't actually DOES co-opt a version of it for actual real-life gov't use.
In which case - it'll be ALL of our problem(s)!...
"I don't hate cats...as long as they stay on the freeway, where they belong."
- Brad Stine
Unless gov't actually DOES co-opt a version of it for actual real-life gov't use.
In which case - it'll be ALL of our problem(s)!...
Actually, not mine. Australia rules!
OT: Use <cite> around quotes, e.g.:
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Ryan McCue
Person 1: Oh my god. You will never believe what just happened.
Person 2: What?
Person 1: I can't remember, I've forgotten.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
"Actually, not mine."
Note that I didn't specify the AMERICAN government...
(I'm fairly sure that gov'ts *every*where are plagued by Microshaft-like incompetance...)
"Australia rules!"
Australian rules football? Crikey!
"I don't hate cats...as long as they stay on the freeway, where they belong."
- Brad Stine