After watching the forums over a period of time it seems that a pattern is repeating itself.
- The search function is frequently unused/overlooked by new posters
- The same applications are often suggested to be made portable
- Writers/developers of paf launchers are often unaware of what other launchers are in development by other members
- Casual visitors cannot easily establish what is forthcoming.
How about extending the site to adopt a 'register' of applications? The following are suggestions for inclusion:
- The title and versions of applications submitted but deemed unsuitable
- The title and version of applications accepted for development of launcher and packaging
- The identity of the principal launcher developer
- The stage of development e.g. initial stage launcher writing; release candidate issued for testing.
Once a portable application is released it might be removed from the register and transferred to the list of available applications. The register should aim to be informative but very simple, brief, and understood at-a-glance. It might be compulsory viewing for anyone wishing to suggest an application to be made portable.
With all developments of this type there are costs such as:
- The maintenance of the new area/pages
- Documenting/recording is not a primary motivator of all programmers/developers.
Obvious benefits of this approach might include:
- The PA site and service become more user friendly
- A possible reduction in the number of unnecessary/unsuitable applications submitted for launcher creation
- A 'road map' of forthcoming developments is produced
- Greater cohesion of developer effort might be obtained e.g. reduced duplication of effort
- The register could act as a template for extended services such as packaged freeware/payware applications should they become available.
It will be interesting to discover the views of members. Might such a development produce a worthwhile enhancement of PortableApps.com?
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I actually produced a working one, but no one showed any interest in it, nor did John.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
What about a "Projects" button next to the "Development" button at the top?
And Ryan, I remembered your doing something along those lines, but if it isn't on the first page of the tracker, it disappears into .....(nothing).
I think another try would be good.
Maybe we even get Johns attention...;)
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.” - Richard P. Feynman
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
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There are 10 types of people in the world.
Those who understand Binary
and Those who don't
Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world
It is hard to evolve when one person is overseeing ALL the work being produced by himself and all the developers of his community. Then again it's his way of quality control I guess.
What is even more confusing is when people talk about stuff that's not even been mentioned in the forums that might be from an email.
Everything is open source but the documentation and organization is completely lacking.
This place needs a wiki or some other formal section for placing development documentation. Where it will stay and not be cluttered, can easily be edited and updated.
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pkeffect.com
"We exist in a multidimensional polymorphic hyerspacial internode of neurotranslinguistic manifestations subjugated by hyperbolic quantum entanglement."
And I agree. I have a new version of the Development page ready to go, but it's not doing anything sitting on my desktop. Plus, I plan to turn the development section into a "Book", so it will be easy to navigate.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
I though about why we did not have a place were we could find all the apps including beta and the documentation. Glad to see people sharing my views but now just to get Johns attention. It will also help him to. I still have not searched through every page in beta testing apps and i have been doing it for days
Never curse the alligator till you done cross the bridge.
Never curse the alligator till you done cross the bridge.
Ask and ye shall receive: https://portableapps.com/node/9039 (even though I made it before your comment
)
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Could you clarify your proposal please, Ryan? You describe this as being "a developers thing".
Do you see this as fulfilling the developments outlined in the opening post of this thread, or do you see it as being a single yet complimentary step towards achieving it? (i.e. a single element to be combined with others)
Well, as a side effect of that, the development page will be changed to a book page, making it easy to add new pages.
As I see it, the best way to have the development section set up would be the following:
Edit: I found my implementation of it. Implementation and corresponding PHP source code. I'll look into developing this into a Drupal module.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
That allows a better insight into your idea. I was unaware of your previous suggestion relating to this as it did not turn up in but my pre-post search. There seems to be a coincidence of views between your idea and the opening post of the thread. In order to encourage contributors to continue with (or become involved in) the discussion I have created a new post to continue the exploration of the ideas contributed so far.
The views expressed up to this point seem quite positive and constructive. It is encouraging that they are in favour of the continued evolution of PA by adopting a more structured, better documented, standards based approach.
The suggestions appear to have a common(ish) view in that they address the topic from a developer's perspective. Perhaps that is only natural given that the core activity of PA depends upon them (developers) giving freely of their time and expertise. As the appeal of PA grows and reaches a wider user base perhaps it might be prudent to try and ensure that future evolution of the PA service is suited to both developers and non-developers.
By way of examples for consideration:
Can a consensus be reached on the aims of this potential development? This might then allow a clearer view of the benefits to be gained of adopting this change and in turn help decide what (if anything) is to be implemented.
I like the projects page idea, although I also wouldn't mind seeing it implemented in the development page. I despise Wiki's. They are very tacky (in my opinion) and I don't think they'd be in the best interest of this site.
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"For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three."
Alice Kahn
-Please search before posting
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook
Not tacky if they're themed to look like the rest of the site.
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Signature...What Signature?
See Wordpress' documentation site for a great example. Wish I could do that
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
You just need a weekend and a PC
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.” - Richard P. Feynman
"What about Love?" - "Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate." - Al Pacino in The Devils Advocate
When I get around to doing it, I'll do a mockup of how I imagine the development section to look like.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
One of the major attractions of PA forums is that they are well managed. They are standards based and actively managed to maintain the published standards. If a freely editable wikki approach is adopted how is the current high quality to be sustained? How is the accuracy of the information to be assured? If a wikki is to be moderated is it simply another forum under a different name? If a wiki is to be non editable what is to be the mechanism for publishing the information. Who is to is to be responsible for it? etc...etc...
Edit:
Apologies for posting this at the wrong level. It was intended to be indented at the same level as Ryan's post dated September 8, 2007 - 9:21pm.
Edit End.
Well, the way I see it, documentation would be pages editable only by developers. Any improvements would be in comments.
As John is busy, I'd probably be doing most of the work.
Also, for the requested apps section, each app would be on the page and people would use a rating system of 5 stars to rate each one on how much they want it (not all need to be filled in). New additions would be taken from forum topics in the Request Apps forums, to keep out the crud.
Please note that this is merely what I think and John may have another plan.
One last thing, the dates change subject to your timezone, so the day and time may not be correct for everyone, but the minutes always will be. In other words, it should be posted under my comment above.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Quote from Ryan McCue
"...people would use a rating system of 5 stars to rate each one on how much they want it..."
Is voting for developers only or open to all members?
Quote from Ryan McCue
"...New additions would be taken from forum topics in the Request Apps forums..."
Does this mean that repeated submissions of the same application are possible? If I have missed your point, how would a (non developer) user be aware or advised whether the application they are submitting has previously been accepted or declined?
Quote from Ryan McCue
"...As John is busy..."
This fact influenced the manner in which I opened this topic. A busy individual may not have sufficient spare capacity/time to devote to every aspect of an increasingly popular endeavour. The focus is quite naturally on what is considered important and/or necessary. If a proposal falls outside these areas it is likely to be viewed as a low priority.
My opening post poses a question about a possible improvement to PA.com; this was based on observations of the forums over a few months and includes evidence to support the analysis. A high-level outline solution is suggested together with an indication of the costs and benefits that might be expected. While this may not be the only/ideal way to approach the issue it is, at least, logical. It was my hope that other members would also make contributions that were evidence based and included pros and cons. Any conclusions reached as a result of such a process would thereby be based on firm foundations.
You are much more familiar with these forums than I am; can you suggest how the community can be encouraged to contribute using the above (or similar) model?
Quote from Ryan McCue
"...Please note that this is merely what I think and John may have another plan..."
This is quite true and I do not know whether he is aware of the current discussion. However, if any proposal for change is based on an identified need, supported by evidence and is arrived at through a logical process, he may be assured that it is a reasoned response to a real issue. Hopefully it will ease the decision making process.
Edit:
Apologies - I have again misaligned the reply to Ryan.
End Edit
Is voting for developers only or open to all members?
All members, but only developers could add new entries.
Does this mean that repeated submissions of the same application are possible? If I have missed your point, how would a (non developer) user be aware or advised whether the application they are submitting has previously been accepted or declined?
Before posting a new submission, they would check the requests page. If the app they want isn't found, they would post a request. Any topics which request an app already on the list would be locked and linked.
You are much more familiar with these forums than I am; can you suggest how the community can be encouraged to contribute using the above (or similar) model?
Seeing as I have been here since Portable Firefox (sic) and the batch files and am a moderator and developer, it's easy to see how.
Anyway, we would add a note to the current header shown above the text box telling users to check the requests page first.
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Ryan McCue.
Blog.
So all that Airbus-delay trouble over here in Europe is because of YOU!
Simeon.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
Quotes
SamK
"...You are much more familiar with these forums than I am; can you suggest how the community can be encouraged to contribute using the above (or similar) model?..."
Ryan's reply
"...Seeing as I have been here since Portable Firefox (sic) and the batch files and am a moderator and developer, it's easy to see how. Sticking out tongue
Anyway, we would add a note to the current header shown above the text box telling users to check the requests page first."
This was not meant to demean you in any way. The manner in which I raised the question may have misled you. The question relates to the paragraph which precedes it. It may have been better as a continuation of the paragraph rather than a separate one. I was asking if the contributors to the current discussion could be encouraged to make contributions using an evidence based, pros and cons framework. It seems to have become a dialogue between the two of us. I think it might be helpful if a wide spectrum of views were represented.