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PNotes Portable Development Test 7

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OliverK
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Its not really modified, its

Its not really modified, its the same code, just expanded. By upcoming official release, what do you mean? I am willing (and will)switch it back, but . . .

The above users requested that it separate the languages. Yes, it under 1 mb, but why install Croatian if I don't use it? Would it be okay to use it on skins? Or is it just for locales? Could English be default, and then the rest be optional? Which runs into the above list. We can't cater to everything, but I thought this was a good compromise.

Somtimes it bothers me to have the installer or app come with 50 languages that I can't use under any circumstances. I see your point, but can some people enjoy it before I switch back to plain-jane install everything?

Also, on a much lighter note, you're fast.

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John T. Haller
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Nope

This app is so small it should definitely be a standard installer.

The upcoming PortableApps.com Installer release will be using simple config files for nearly all apps. It will only support a single additional option, though, and should only be used when absolutely necessary (to avoid adding 40MB to a 26MB app, for instance). Using it to save 130K (the total size of ALL your language files) is pretty silly.

We don't use this for FileZilla or any of the other multi-lingual apps. Plus, your modified installer has errors and doesn't properly clean up on reinstalls (if you reinstall without an option checked, it should remove those files as Pidgin and GIMP do). Basically, this is unnecessarily complex for what it is making it harder to package, maintain and support.

Keep it simple! Please remove this package and switch it back to the all in one installer.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

lamer
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Yes, keep it simple!

Yes, keep it simple!
BTW, Russian appears both in Package 1 and Package 2.
And from lang files you didn't include, the czech.lng, for example, was downloaded much more than german or swedish.
It would be fair to include all lang files in installer (although I still think that english.lng only and one/two skins is the better solution).
Keep it simple Smile

OliverK
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Arg! You guys really want it

Arg!

You guys really want it kept simple?!

Fine. Bbut I thought I had all the lang files. And its only a development test!

I think I found my problem with the addons directory errors

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ZachHudock
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It's not an attack on you,

It's not an attack on you, it's just that keeping things simple is easier for the devs, and for the users. If all the languages are there by default, users won't get confused trying to change to a non-existant language, or have to pick and choose from a long list of languages.

With an app as small as PNotes, including all the languages doesn't make a difference at all.

The developer formerly known as ZGitRDun8705

OliverK
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I know its not an attack.

I know its not an attack. I'm sorry if I seem to be attacking you guys. I must be taking it as an attack. I'm sorry.

I was just under the impression that the forum wanted it this particular way- and I spent some time setting up the installer in that matter. I figured you guys would like it.

If I had it my way, no languages except english, and skins throughout!

My mind is just so frazzled I can't even think!

Crapola you can read it, b ut I guess that it really means nothing:
forget it wahtever, see a new version every five minutes.

As:
some of it
here
here
here
better references
here
here, suggestion made by another developer

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Aciago
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mmm

why not some kind of gui that pops p and ask "would you like to download an additional language?" or something like that, with the list of available lang files...

The problem is, most people don't know this App can be localized...

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report Biggrin

OliverK
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But then that wouldn't

But then that wouldn't conform to PAF standards.

I would have prefered something that listed every locale you could have and would prompt you to select which one you want.

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OliverK
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Yes it is small. Yeah, its

Yes it is small.

Yeah, its silly. No offense intended to those peaking spanish, french, etc. But as per my above comment about my language skills (i.e. english and pig latin) I find it silly to have a bunch of extra language files installed when I don't need them.

I get those errors on the regular installer, as well. Modifying the installer as directed from Kompozer throws those errors. I didn't now that it would delete those extensions on reinstall if they weren't checked. Its not really to much harder to update and support either, though. Just make a folder called currentPNotePortable, drop everything inside. Works for me.

I don't have the new all in one done yet.

I just compiled the Kompozer Installer (with no modifications)- it gave me this:
1 warning:
unknown variable/constant "{SectionMain}" detected, ignoring (C:\Documents and Settings\XXXXXXXXX\Desktop\KompoZerPortable\Other\Source\PortableApps.comInstaller.nsi:165)

Checking for those others, it compiles fine with kompozer, as well as pnotes. I'm gonna compare and figure out why, I hope.

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
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lamer
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Please, see my previous
Tim Clark
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@ Lamer

My friend, I have stayed out of this whole thing because I saw it coming.

Do you remember My previous post? Blum

https://portableapps.com/node/8335#comment-43852

Tim
One of your early testers,
Who liked it as it was Sad

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

OliverK
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Please, define "was"?

Please, define "was"?

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Tim Clark
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Oliver,

Oliver,

Let me say that this is no reflection on you AT ALL!!!
In fact I thought to post the same basic message to you as I posted to Lamer.

When I say I liked it the way it was I meant that I wish it had just been ".paf"ed a long time ago. I am currently using PNotesPortable2.5 I think. I'm perfectly happy with it. As I warned Lamer, and now warn you, some of these people will suck your soul dry with requests. You will never make them happy, never.

I will use the version you release when it comes out.
I will not take part in the "development stage" of this app.
As you have found you have wasted a lot of time and energy trying to make everyone happy.
[Mind you I have not read through all of this now 2 page thread so nothing I am saying should reflect on anything said more than 2 days ago.]

I think you mentioned you could have been done at Dev 4.
Maybe you could have been.

The original app needed some slight modifications.
It did not need your being put through all of this.

To answer your question directly,
"Please, define 'was'?"
Simply put, it "was" Simple Sad

With great respect for your efforts,
and sympathy for your frustrations,

Tim
[please reply to this post one way or another so I know you read it in all this mess]

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

OliverK
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Yeah, its helps when your

Yeah, its helps when your calmed down.

Yeah, I wish it had been ".paf" 'ed along time ago, too. Its a good app. I've releazed that people will suck you dry with requests, now. Would have been nice to have gotten that idea in my head awhile ago.

Thankyou for the word of support!
Okay.
Yeah. Oh well, though. It wasn't for nothing, I mean, I learned something. Learning something new means not all was lost.

Yep.

True.
Oh well. Live and learn.

KISS principle. I'm learning more and more.

Thankyou.
Thankyou.

OliverK

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lamer
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The road to hell is paved

The road to hell is paved with good intentions Smile

lamEr

Tim Clark
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Andrey

I've fixed it above,

Don't know why I keep wanting to mistype your handle/login.
I guess I think of Lemar as a name but not lemer.
Does it have a meaning?

I guess I'll try to stick with Andrey Blum

Tim

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

LOGAN-Portable
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I agree with just including

I agree with just including all available languages. Not that I use them, but just to save users who like them to go out and download it 'somewhere'. I understand that the language files are very small and as such it's not a real problem.

Also I would be for adding some more quality skins. While this would have a bigger impact than say the language files it would be cool to have a selection of the greatest skins.

Some installers would offer option checkboxes like 'Additional Languages" and 'additional skins' which would make everyone happy, except John maybe Sad But if the skins and language files would be optional yet included in the installer everyone would be happy. But if it 'must be simple' then I choose to add the Languages and Skins by default. (Although I can't see what would be complex to ALLOW the end user to choose him or her self.) I suspect install options are not advised in case of suite installers (which would not offer options).

To me 'keep it simple' means all is included, and possibly a choice to install all. Not 'simple' would be skimming through web pages to find skins and language files.

Of course a matter of personal taste, but anyway...

Keep'em coming.

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download does the good old

download does the good old 404 at time of posting Smile

OliverK
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fixed

fixed

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John T. Haller
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One Installer, No Options

Alright, enough with the ridiculous bickering. We're talking about a total of 134KB for *ALL* the languages. 134 friggin KB! No other apps this small use multi-option installers nor will they. It's overkill and there's no reason to. This is going to be one of the smallest apps released by PortableApps.com. It's under 1MB.

This should be one installer. No options. No compexity. No extra bs. Just one installer with all languages and only the skins that are considered 'official' by lamer and will be updated along with PNotes.

Now stop being ridiculous, people.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

OliverK
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I stop bickering >hide in

I stop bickering >hide in corner

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lamer
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Well, in my opinion: 1) All

Well, in my opinion:
1) All currently available languages for version 3.5
2) Skins - portableapps.skn (it's obvious :)), classic-yellow (as it looks like standard note) and ancient.skn - as downloads champion.
All other skins could be downloaded later by user.

OliverK
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i do it when i feel better

i do it when i feel better in my noggin.

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Don't wanna live my life in the real world

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I saw one that looked more

I saw one that looked more like a real note with a pin... That one too?

John T. Haller
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Issue With Skins?

The only problem with additional skins is that they need to be updated for each release. Will the original skin authors update them the same day as a new PNotes version is posted?

BTW - Oliver, none of any of this was meant as an attack. We just do all the apps a certain way and there's really no need to deviate here as this is the same as many other apps that are multilingual. Plus, the next platform will have some features that make standardization on one and at most two possible install packages much more attractive.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

lamer
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Actually there is only one

Actually there is only one author of skins - lamer Smile
The last skin, tropicalchip, has been made by another person, but could be easily updated. And obviously I will update all skins if there will be a need to.
Oliver, I only want to say that you make great work. Hold on!

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Ah

Didn't know that Smile

I'm thinking perhaps the standard yellow and ancient as lamer suggested since it's the most popular. We can add a PA themed one if people really want it, but we'd need it supported and updated regularly. We can base it on the artwork from the next release.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

OliverK
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Skins aren't always

Skins aren't always incompatable. I think 1x and 2x used the same, but I could be wrong.

I've calmed down a bit. I know its not a personal attack. I know it. I know it I know it I know it. Help me hammer it in.

I didn't think it was that bad. I thought everybody though it was evil.

Can we have that standards list sometime soonish, and the alpha 1.5 after that?

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OliverK
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Logan, this comment isn't

Logan, this comment isn't just for you. Actually, only about 2 lines are for you, the following. If anyone cares to read the rest, fine. I repeat, only the following two lines pertain to you, Logan.
(Logan)
The ones that are in there currently is all I am planning on including. My "professionalism" is about to go down the tubes.

If I include a new one, it'll be the old style parchment, which is by far my favorite over anything, except maybe the pa.com skin.
(/Logan)

It's trouble when you start to to cater to everything and everyone and whatever whims you come up with. I'm on the 7th development test- when I could be on 4. The need for the fourth was a misunderstanding. The need for a fifth was becuase upx'ing (which saved maybe 100 "friggin"kb) screwed up the package in that pile of gunk called an operating system, vista which is a sham heisted upon every computer user by computer companies who don't care what you get so long as they get ypur money.(Which I'm proud to say is not PortableApps.com's goal, nor is it mine.) 6 was for a flat lined installer because it was to "complicated". 7 is basically the same as 5. I intend only to do a eighth because I damn well have to.

I figured do the different "packs" would help. It did, but wasn't well received. Oh well. Hopefully, I'm not spewing more venom with that comment. Or the following. Or the above. Or anything else I'm saying.

Honestly, I'm despressed. It not about getting shot at for the installer. I can understand that. Standards. without standards, a site is worth duck squat. PA.com is a wonderful site with high standards for quality assurance. Everything I've gotten here as an official release works. I took the time to set up the installer. I don't want a dozen extra languages installed to my PNotesPortable by default. It doesn't need to happen. I figured using language packs was a good idea. I guess not. As far as extra, its my time. Who cares? I only have two apps, and its conceivable that this is the only one will go official, unless I really shoot myself in the foot with this comment.

I don't know why I feel like defending my actions to everyone. This is one of the most commented on threads on the site. Maybe that's why. Maybe, bec

John says, use the standard. I'm using the standard. I concede to John.

The three skins and the pa.com one. Those are the one I'm putting in. The eight will be because I need it.

I think I know how John feels now. I'm not trying to rant at anyone. Just, this is my reasoning behind everything.

I'm sorry. I think I'm burnt out on this.

Hopefully, I'm still a developer. Hopefully, this will still go official. Hopefully, everyone on this site still like me and want to try this app.
Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully.

Fix bayonets, people. I've got my titanium undies on.

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
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Don't wanna live my life in the real world

lamer
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One of the best comments

One of the best comments I've ever read.
I take off my hat.

Hopefully, I'm still a developer

Yes, you are!

Hopefully, this will still go official

Me too.

John T. Haller
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You are

Oliver, you're still the dev here. You know you can't take anything in terms of criticism of what's included personally. People have very different viewpoints on some things but none of that means it's a personal criticism of you.

As for languages included, it's our standard to include them unless there is a huge size difference in which case we make it optional (essentially combining English only and multilingual as a single download). It's the easiest way to do it and ensures that we have ongoing support for all languages. We do it for 7-Zip, AbiWord, etc, etc. Every single app that's multilingual has them all included, just as they do with their regular installs. The only exception is Pidgin, GIMP, GnuCash, etc. Big apps with VERY big localization files. We only do it out of necessity.

Every single option in terms of installation is one more thing to support. One more thing to code for. One more question to ask on every bug report. Etc. It makes far more sense to keep it simple.

We also need to add the language switcher into the launcher. You can attempt this by looking at the current FileZilla or Toucan launcher. Or I can give you a hand and post a code update for you.

Provided we get this all working as hoped, we might include this in the next Suite release.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

OliverK
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Launguage switcher? I'll

Launguage switcher?

I'll take a look at Filezilla.

Attempt? I'll get 'er!

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Toucan

Check out Toucan as I think it uses the same strings as PNotes so the same environment variable would suffice. You'll need to manually set it for Poruguese depending on variant. See the list of language strings in NSIS for the complete list of what you'll be given.

Oh, and use the FileZilla code as an example for checking that a given language is present. If you want to start it and have me check it, just email me the code to the developer contact address and I'll look at it tomorrow.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

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Okay, now the part where I

Okay, now the part where I ask for help. (But I do intend to, "Get 'er")

I looked at Filezilla, and found all the code that does the switching.

GetAppLanguage:
		ReadEnvStr $APPLANGUAGE "PortableApps.comLocaleglibc"
		StrCmp $APPLANGUAGE "" RememberPath ;if not set, move on
		StrCmp $APPLANGUAGE "en_US" "" GetCurrentLanguage
			StrCpy $APPLANGUAGE "en"
		
	GetCurrentLanguage:
	ReadINIStr $3 $SETTINGSDIRECTORY\Notes.ini lang file
		StrCmp `$APPLANGUAGE` $3 RememberPath ;if the same, move on
		StrCmp $APPLANGUAGE "en" SetAppLanguage ;english is built in, so skip locale file check
		IfFileExists "$PROGRAMDIRECTORY\lang\*.*" SetAppLanguage RememberPath

	SetAppLanguage:
	WriteINIStr $SETTINGSDIRECTORY\Notes.ini lang file $4
		
	RememberPath:
		WriteINIStr "$SETTINGSDIRECTORY\${NAME}Settings.ini" "${NAME}Settings" "LastDrive" "$CURRENTDRIVE"

I don't think the script should need to record the last path, so I intend to get rid of that and all relating.
Am I missing the "PortableApps.comLocaleglibc"? I don't have it in Filezilla.

I believe the luancher is looking to see what language the launcher is in, then setting the ini to run the program in the same language. Correct?

PNotes uses a ini for its languages. Toucan is probably a better place to look for this, as I'm assuming that's what Toucan uses. (Being at the library, while a connection, is fairly insecure).

Would looking at Toucan be a way to do it? Any pointers in using Toucan?

I'd like some pointers here to work to get the code to work properly. With pointers, I actually learn how to code better. No offense, John. I think pointers are better, because then I learn how to use the code. Me knowing how to use the code means less calls for help at some point.

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
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Don't wanna live my life in the real world

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revision 7 works well in vista

I've just had the chance to try this with vista ultimate SP1, and it works without problems and leaves nothing obvious behind.

keep up the good work

mecki77
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skins are gone

I had all Skins for the Version 3.5 of PNotes from the PNotes-Page in the Skins folder - after the update to Development Test 7 They are all gone - except the four, that are included,...
Is this a bug or a feature? Wink

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Yeah, I should have

Yeah, I should have mentioned that. When you go from 2x to 3x, the skins arn't compatable anymore. Hence, I had the installer get rid of them.

That was an issue I hadn't thought of, though.

Lamer, is there a way that the computer could tell the difference?

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
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lamer
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Do you mean tell the skins

Do you mean tell the skins difference?
Currently the only way is to check some resources in .skn file:
Toolbar for note, for example, is stored in skins of v3.x as RCDATA with name 25017. And there is no such resource in skins prior to v3.x

lamer
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Oliver, if you are still

Oliver, if you are still here:
1) In help.htm, under "General PNotes & Issues", "PNotes Support" points to http://pnotes.sf.net/support.html - there is no such page, may be write https://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=212106
2) Under "Acknowledgements" - my name is "Andrey", and not "Audrey" Smile

Regards

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I'm still here- I'm not

I'm still here- I'm not going away anytime soon. :EVIL: Gotta see it thru, right? Doesn't seem worth it to go through the above and not finish it. Smile
1)Will change for the next upload (yes, one more. Its needed to bring it to full PAF specs.)
2)Oops, :0 Sorry. I'll get that too. Smile

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
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Don't wanna live my life in the real world

Patrick Patience
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Haha

Number two.

lamer
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Something else - I uploaded

Something else - I uploaded accomplished German translation (thanks to mecki_77), not all mirrors are updated (SourceForge :(), but here is an updated one:
http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pnotes/german_3_5_1.zip

wk
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There´s still a typo..

8039=Beispiesdatum should spell "Beispieldatum" Wink

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lamer
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Thank you! Fixed and

Thank you!
Fixed and uploaded (although I don't know when all mirrors will be updated)

Oliver!
There are one more translation for v3.5 - hebrew.lng - http://downloads.sourceforge.net/pnotes/hebrew_3_5_1.zip
Please, include it.

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PNotes Skin!!!

ok all PAM variations are done by Shawn (original) and MrElchbau (original compact), so i have create a compliantly other skin called "Carbon". you can find preview and download here:

http://ptc.kain-planet.de/details.php?file=230

hope you like it...

regards
NeoRame

Hell was full, so I came back!!!
Sorry for my lousy English!!!

lamer
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I like it. One only wish -

I like it.
One only wish - can you make captions of note's toolbar more lighter? One couldn't see black letters on dark red background. I want to to add the skin to my download page.

NeoRame
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ok its updated, now the

ok its updated, now the toolbar fonts are in light gray for more contrast.

regards
NeoRame

Hell was full, so I came back!!!
Sorry for my lousy English!!!

lamer
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Done! Thank you!

Done!
Thank you!

NeoRame
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yeah my first work on

yeah my first work on SF.net....
thanks

Hell was full, so I came back!!!
Sorry for my lousy English!!!

OliverK
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Joined: 2007-03-27 15:21
Okay, here we go: 7.1 is the

Okay, here we go:

7.1 is the new download. I wanted to clear up any crap from the other stuff.
Changes:

  • The installer shouldn't delete your themes as the old one did. It will move them to /App/PNotes/oldskins This is because 2x skins are incompatible with PNotes 3x. Sorry. If you know which skins are 3x compatible, you're good. Otherwise, delete the folder and start over.
  • New languages included, and updated. Hebrew and German, for those interested
  • Skins from our themers, Mr.Elchbau and NeoRame included. Theming "challenge" is over. I am willing to accept more, but will not be included in the packages. However, I will be putting theme links into the help file, so you can make more, and I'll host theme on my site.

To-do:

  • Implement the script so it will move *.pnote, etc. to the appropriate folder.
  • Set the installer to check the resources and move the incompatible skins to a different folder.

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world

MrElchbau
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.

Works very fine, lang (german) ok.
Good job!
(I've tested the blue skin... my eyes, where are my eyes? Can't test further more... ;-))

Life is crunchy, anywhere

NeoRame
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Works fine good job, and

Works fine good job, and thanks for the add.
german locale are ok the only thing that i have found, right click menu in the text area (for copy, cut, delete...) shows me a square behind every word in the menu....

thanks and regards
NeoRame

Hell was full, so I came back!!!
Sorry for my lousy English!!!

lamer
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Just added 3 more skins to

Just added 3 more skins to my site (Oliver, you already have them in installer, don't worry ;)):
blackadder by wk, pam-compact by MrElchbau and portableapps by Shawn Faucher.
http://pnotes.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=2
Hope I haven't make a mess of authorship.

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