You are here

Do I have Java?

22 posts / 0 new
Last post
listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
Do I have Java?

Ok, I clicked the link and got the following:

http://java.com/en/download/dt_verify.jsp?plugin=false&latest=false&user...

Without resorting to incivility, what is this cr@p?

solanus
solanus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: 2006-01-21 19:12
Apparently,

You don't have the Java installed or you have a version less than 1.4.2.

I'm going to assume that you know what Java is.

It looks like you attempted to use an app or a page that requires Java 1.4.2 or higher, which is a pretty old version. Whatever system you were using did not have this, or could not find it if it was installed.

There is a portable version here.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.

jamcomm
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 4 months ago
Joined: 2009-07-24 14:51
Download page

(solanus - not sure if you meant your "here" to be a hyperlink, but for anyone reading this thread in the future (i.e. me!))

PortableApps.com portable Java page: https://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/java_portable

John T. Haller
John T. Haller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 49 min ago
AdminDeveloperModeratorTranslator
Joined: 2005-11-28 22:21
Yeah

Yeah, so you don't have it or have an old version. If you mean for Firefox Portable, Firefox can't use Java Portable due to the way Sun's Java plugin is coded (it looks in HKLM n the registry for it). There is no fix or workaround without admin rights on each machine.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
Interesting, so can it be

Interesting, so can it be fixed by an administrator on the local machine?

I understand it would be something of a hack or at least a workaround but I'm not really into this Portable business, I'm simply using this stuff as if it was installed since each time Windows breaks it's there on my second drive, best of both worlds I think.

I was thinking about using the Documents folder of PAP but was a bit worried sometimes I overwrite the install in strange ways so didn't want to lose my files.

Any advice here from those knowledegable peepz.

Tim Clark
Tim Clark's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 years 10 months ago
Joined: 2006-06-18 13:55
Yes, just have someone with

Yes, just have someone with administrator rights install the latest version of Java. It is an easy process with a fast internet connection. For modem users, like me, I recommend downloading the installer from another location and taking it home on a flash drive.

To do this you would go here:
http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
and choose the offline install (it's about 16MB)
They claim a minimal online install is about 10MB so this would take about a half hour by modem.

If I understand your second question correctly, even overwriting the install in strange ways should leave an existing Documents folder untouched, I guess it could depend on how strange strange is.

Tim

[Important Edit] Oh, and just to be sure, before you do anything else, in FF go to Tools->Options->Content and make sure you don't have Enable Java unchecked. And if you are using any tools or addons like NoScript, make sure you don't have Java blocked or disallowed. As a quick test you could try going to this page http://java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml in IE.

Tim

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
Thanks Tim, I'm probably not

Thanks Tim,

I'm probably not understanding here, but I thought the portable version was somehow able to be referenced by these portable applications, in particular the browsers.

I saw something about Java Games but surely it's more serious than that?

As for OoO I have no idea what Java can do for that, as I haven't been able to download the latest version (sun) but I managed to get the spin-off application with my limited bandwidth.

Anyway, I really hope something can be done about NSIS, otherwise this stuff is tops.

Tim Clark
Tim Clark's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 years 10 months ago
Joined: 2006-06-18 13:55
Ahh, sorry,

Ahh, sorry, I was thinking the important thing was getting Java/current Java, not necessarily Java Portable. Currently the only app that uses JavaPortable is OO.o The apps have to be written to use it. We are not permitted to mess with FF/and/or the java plugin, in a way which will make it use it yet, but in the future, who knows.

Tim

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
Thanks Tim

That's quite a shame, I was starting to think I had a bunch of problems solved.

I really thought Java deep down was Open Source, and that in the past people like Microsoft used the code in order to run applications on their systems without needing the original source and that having Java Portable meant the same thing.

I'm no developer that's certain I can understand syntax, structure definitions etc but my only experience is with scripting and meta languages but this situation I believe is very grave.

Tim Clark
Tim Clark's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 years 10 months ago
Joined: 2006-06-18 13:55
Nah

[Light hearted banter intended Smile ]

but this situation I believe is very grave

Nah, I have Java disabled in FFP all the time and have never even noticed it in my browsing. In fact I have only found one site that absolutely required it that even mattered to me.

But for those who need it the time will come when we will be able to make it work, we just have to have patience.

Tim

Things have got to get better, they can't get worse, or can they?

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
.

I still don't get the point of why PAP are even bothering then if it doesn't do anything for the internet.

Is there an explanation or just more fluff.

John T. Haller
John T. Haller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 49 min ago
AdminDeveloperModeratorTranslator
Joined: 2005-11-28 22:21
Java Apps

Simple, Java applications. Yes, OO.o uses it and you can't use some of the features without it. But we're talking about full local applications that use Java... and there are a lot of them... and many useful ones. There are a few in development test already.

The ability to use it with Firefox portably without admin rights will require the Sun Java plugin to be changed. Personally, I don't use Java apps in my browser at all. But I do have some local Java apps I use.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
ok

but im still confused about this administrative rights issue. Are you saying it can be done so long as it's the administrator doing it or can those rights be assigned?

Thank you

solanus
solanus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: 2006-01-21 19:12
Installing Java requires administrative rights.

Since FF always looks in the registry for Java, it needs to be installed on the computer itself. Installation of Java on the computer requires administrative rights.

Windows assigns rights using polices, usually by assigning these rights to local user groups.
Any users in the Administrators group will get administrative rights.

Administrative rights means full access to the computer; but some of the big differences between the rights of Administrators and other users include installing software, and changing other users' accounts.

By default, Windows creates one Administrator account, and then the first other user is also made a member of the Administrators group. From that point on, new users are added only to the Users group, which has the lowest level of rights.
Any member of the Administrators group can add or remove any other user from the Administrators group.

Most public or school computers are set up so that people don't have administrative rights, for obvious reasons: administrators can really screw up a system if they are malicious or clueless.
But most well-maintained public or school systems should have a recent version of Java installed, since it is such a widely used language. If you are getting your error message on one of these systems, you might be able to get them to update Java if you ask nicely.

For most home systems, the primary user has administrative rights, so it wouldn't be an issue.
If you are working on your friends' or parents' computer, you could ask them to give you administrative rights by placing your account in the Administrators group, or ask them to update Java themselves.

You can't assign administrative rights to yourself without the help of an administrator.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
I can see you understand this

I can see you understand this well.

Ok, now I know this is probably a question I should put to social.microsoft.com maybe but are you saying that when I set up Vista say, that the first Account I create is an Administrator Account, and then the next one after that is also an administrator account which by rights could remove the credentials of the first admin account?

Anyway, about Java, it is rather interesting what you are saying regarding FireFox portable looking to the Windows for a registry entry. This I believe is the real issue at the end of the day and I'll give an example.

I've always wanted to be able to set up TB, so that any links are opened by FF (portable) but after so long I realise that the only add-on I found (browserbounce) sets the reference for both mailto: and hypertext links simultaneously, which I find utterly crazy.

Now I don't know if any of these applications can use Environment Variables but at least if TB could, then wouldn't it be able to refer to FF, or does ENV only refer to stuff in the registry in the case of Windows.

As I am no developer these subject I don't grapple with on a personal level so to speak since if there is no easy way I just move onto some other problem. I only come here because gurus like yourself are willing to write and I don't want to abuse the privilege, I simply get frustrated at times that there is no easy way for things which I'd rather take for granted.

All the best

solanus
solanus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: 2006-01-21 19:12
The FF as default browser issue...

That's one that I don't think has been solved, yet.
While there are 3 Thunderbird add-ons that can let you choose or set an alternate browser:
BrowserBounce
Thunderbrowse
Launchy
I think they all have some issues. BrowserBounce and Launchy definitely need Java, and Thunderbrowse seems to screw up other links.
Launchy can support relative paths, but you have to generate an xml file to add FF Portable - instructions on their site; and you'll need to substitute %GeckoDrive% for the drive letter.
I don't know if the other two support relative paths.

At one point, Ryan McCue wrote an app to automatically set the registry settings to FireFoxPortable - but it had so many problems he took it down.
Setting the default browser in Windows involves a lot of registry keys. Perhaps someone here might code a portable app to add and remove those settings, but I haven't seen all that much interest.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
Yes they do cause issues for

Yes they do cause issues for sure unfortunately.

I was mainly talking about trying to set an environment variable for firefox, instead of altering the registry and have that referenced by a portable app.

To me that seems the most sensible approach, any info on this?

RogueDarkJedi
Offline
Last seen: 12 years 7 months ago
Joined: 2009-02-12 23:34
Being the developer of both

Being the developer of both BrowsrBounce and ThunderBrowse, let me clarify a few things here.

First of all: Both BrowsrBounce and ThunderBrowse support relative paths. This is done via %Drive% instead of the drive letter. For example:

%Drive%\PortableFirefox\PortableFirefox.exe

Second: BrowsrBounce does not need java.

And my last point is more of a question. What do you mean ThunderBrowse seems to mess up other links?

I've never had a problem with it. You know, by not sharing information or reporting problems that you have you encounter, you are hurting a project that is actively improving itself. If you are just going to say it does not work, but not give examples or test cases to help make the product better, you aren't really helping anyone. [/end rant]

With that aside, someone mentioned that BrowsrBounce even sends out mailto: links rather than running them. That's something that I should probably filter for and I'll add that to the next version.

listless
Offline
Last seen: 13 years 5 months ago
Joined: 2009-04-28 23:29
LOL

You know just cause you're the "developer" doesn't mean you know how it's going to work on a given system.

As for reporting issues, well maybe you don't read in the appropriate places.

In any case the plug in was updated so yeah thanks for nothing.

RogueDarkJedi
Offline
Last seen: 12 years 7 months ago
Joined: 2009-02-12 23:34
Frankly: You really need to

Frankly: You really need to stop acting like a prick.

I develop on top of Thunderbird. Which means that if it works in Thunderbird then it should work on other machines as well. And yeah, maybe I won't know how it works on every machine. But at least I have the decency to try to improve my product rather than just ignore everyone. At least I try to make it easier for users to solve their problems. I even give them the ability to contact me.

And you know what? Few actually do contact me when they have a problem. Wanna know why? Because they don't feel like they can be bothered to file a bug report or submit a support request. It's a slap in the face. It's obvious that you don't value other people's work very much. Stop being so selfish.

Maybe I don't read the appropriate places?

Are you kidding me? I have a bug tracker, I constantly look on mozillazine both in thunderbird support and my thread. I check google's past 24 hours results and such. Very rarely do people ever say what exactly the problem is.

The only reason I replied to this thread was because I saw someone was having problems with ThunderBrowse. So I swung in to save the day.

solanus
solanus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 months ago
Joined: 2006-01-21 19:12
Thanks

I'll take a closer look at Thunderbrowse and BrowsrBounce; my comments were from only using them for a short time.
I normally don't use them, but I tried them out and the main issue with the links was with some e-mails, specifically ones that have internal bookmarked links (mailbox:), Thunderbrowse would try to open them in FF as opposed to just jumping to the location in the e-mail that was referenced, and then FF would show an error message "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (mailbox) is not associated with any program". I noticed that in my e-mails from Freecycle.
I got the same issue in BrowsrBounce.
BTW, I didn't have any issues with mailto: links, but then again, I have FF set to direct my mailto: links to TB Portable.
I'm not sure where I got the information about BrowsrBounce using Java - I apologize for my mistake there.

So, one again, thanks for your work, and if you can address the issue with the mailbox: links, I would likely consider switching from Launchy to Browsrbounce.

I made this half-pony, half-monkey monster to please you.

John T. Haller
John T. Haller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 49 min ago
AdminDeveloperModeratorTranslator
Joined: 2005-11-28 22:21
Final Warning

listless, you are now on warning of suspension:
https://portableapps.com/node/20718

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

Log in or register to post comments