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PortableApps.com Suite 1.1 App Inclusion Ideas

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John T. Haller
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PortableApps.com Suite 1.1 App Inclusion Ideas

This topic has been replaced by another one:
https://portableapps.com/node/13391

Please continue the discussion there

I'm putting up a thread so we can discuss the apps to include in the next release of the PortableApps.com Suite. All versions include what will be referred to as the PortableApps.com Platform (menu, backup, custom icons, autorun). The Standard package currently includes:

  • ClamWin Portable (antivirus)
  • Mozilla Firefox - Portable Edition (web browser)
  • Gaim Portable (instant messaging)
  • OpenOffice.org Portable (office suite)
  • Sudoku Portable (puzzle game)
  • Mozilla Sunbird - Portable Edition (calendar/task manager)
  • Mozilla Thunderbird - Portable Edition (email client)

The Lite version (which I think I'm going to call Light from now on) swaps out AbiWord for OpenOffice.org to save space.

In the 1.1 release, I'd like to keep it to that same setup, although we'll be using Pidgin instead of Gaim, of course. (On that note, I'm thinking of having the installer remove Gaim as it installs - only if it successfully imports the settings - since lots of users won't know how to remove an app yet... thoughts?)

I'm going to add Mines-Perfect to both the Light and Standard as it's only 800k installed and is fun.

I think adding Sumatra PDF to both makes sense as it is only 1MB and it's quite handy to be able to open PDFs.

I think adding KeePass is a good idea as it's only 1.5MB and a secure password manager is kind of a must.

I was thinking of adding a media player... but, honestly, not everyone need one portably and it's 16MB which is kinda big.

I'm a bit torn on the virtual keyboard and virtual magnifying glass. They're both very small... and I'd love to have some accessibility apps in the base install... but because we won't have a remove app option in the 1.1 release, I prefer not to clutter the menu.

Same idea with Command Prompt Portable... it's not gonna be useful for everyone.

I thought about Notepad++, but it's really only for developers... end users will use a word processor to do 'documents'.

So that's my 67 cents (it was way more than 2). I'd love to get everybody else's thoughts.

Thanks,
John

This is a work in progress...

Apps Platform Light Standard Ultra
PortableApps.com Platform
MenuXXXX
BackupXXXX
Folders & IconsXXXX
Portable Apps
Firefox XXX
Thunderbird XXX
Sunbird XXX
ClamWin XXX
Pidgin XXX
Sumatra PDF XXX
KeePass XXX
Sudoku XXX
Mines-Perfect XXX
OpenOffice.org  XX
AbiWord X X
Download Details
Installer Size0.8MB51.4MB114MB-
Installation Details
Recommended DeviceAll256MB & up512MB & up-
Install Size1.0MB115MB282MB-
Size on Disk*1.2MB120MB291MB-

* based on a 1GB drive formatted with FAT32

SmithTech
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My 2 cents

For the Full version of the suite.
ClamWinPortable
ConveyPortable
FileZillaPortable
FirefoxPortable
PidgenPortable
GIMPPortable
InfraRecorder
KeePassPortable
Mines-PerfectPortable
OpenOfficePortable
PokerTHPortable
Sumatra
SunbirdPortable
ThunderbirdPortable

I included Gimp and InfraRecorder since they are quite common needs and windows doesn't have a descent default app for either.
An alternate to Gimp could be IrfanView, I know its not open source, but there are plans to open up the site to non-opensource, and I am sure the developer would be willing to work with PortableApps.

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Too big / Usability / Open source

I'm trying hard to keep them from getting too big, so I'm trying to keep it to apps that everyone really needs (or would enjoy). I'll need to run some size tests when I really get going for the day (I'm still in lying down with a laptop and a bit tired).

GIMP isn't the most user friendly app, so I don't think I'm going to include it in the Standard release. And PokerTH is 7MB which is a bit heavy for a non-essential. Convey isn't quite ready for Joe average to use in primetime (it's more for advanced users) and we'll be working those abilities into the Platform Smile InfraRecorder is the same logic... not everyone needs it and not every PC has a burner (and those that do often have burner software).

Irfanview isn't an option for the Suite since we host downloads on SourceForge. Currently, I think my hosting bill would be $20k a month. And the Suite is a large download. Plus, while I want to add in freeware and commercial software to the overall platform... I'd like to keep the Suite itself open source (we can keep the downloads on SF, etc). But, I think it would make sense to have both XNView and IRfanview available on the site here. You have permission from both publishers already, right? Do you want to take control of those two and getting them into PAF with installers?

I have Cornice Portable almost ready to go, but there's an annoying bug where it registers a slower down and up mouse click as a double click (opening files) within it. I keep forgetting to post my beta of it. It's an option for a photo viewer. And it's 5MB.

The goal with the Suites is to give people a good base on which to build according to their needs. That way, the download and install aren't TOO big. I'd like to keep standard fitting on 512MB drives and Light fitting on 256MB. (which means lots of extra space on both for files/data, otherwise it isn't that useful) I think creating an Ultra Edition Suite later on with one app of every type on it would be a good idea once we have categories/folders in the main menu. We'd update it less often than the other two (as it'll take a while to do) and probably not localize it, but it would be cool to have available.

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I can do the IrfanView and

I can do the IrfanView and XnView paf installers (need to update IrfanView anyway), I'll modify one of the new installers unless you have a "template" you can email me.

EDIT: Umm, I don't think they can be in paf format, if I recall, the paf format requirements are that the settings/ini files go in the data directory so they aren't overwritten during an update. I don't know if they will work with the settings file in a different directory.
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Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch.

"Because they stand on a wall and say, 'Nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch.'" (A Few Good Men)
Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.(Albert Einstein)

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Ask about command line

Ask the author about a command line switch (WinSCP had one that I didn't know about called /INI=pathtoini). If not, we can move the ini files there and back. FileZilla Portable does that.

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Will

Will do

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Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch.

"Because they stand on a wall and say, 'Nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch.'" (A Few Good Men)
Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.(Albert Einstein)

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isn't it free

isn't irfanview free??? http://www.irfanview.net/

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If you can share, which of

If you can share, which of Convey's abilities will eventually be integrated to the Platform? Will the Platform be able to manage file extensions like my C.A.F.E. Mod does? If not, feel free to play around with my mod, it isnt exactly ready for final release yet. There's a bug in the Extension Config GUI, and the help file isn't very helpful.
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Convoy isn't listed yet

It was in a request list from a user, not in John's list.

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I know it was in a request,

I know it was in a request, and John responded with this:

Convey isn't quite ready for Joe average to use in primetime (it's more for advanced users) and we'll be working those abilities into the Platform
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Aciago
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nice

It can be a nice addition if lite can have a preconfigured and autorun version of C.A.F.E. Mod, and the most complete have preconfigured Convey...

Also don't forget the usability of lost, appslauncher, PNotes and ejectscript... for many "Joes" like myself... Wink

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and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
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If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
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and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report Biggrin

John T. Haller
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Nope

As already stated, no advanced tools will be included. Only things that are DEAD easy and require ZERO configuration. CAFE Mod, Convey, Ejectscript are fine for geeks who like to tinker. But not for normal users. This has already been discussed at least a couple times in this thread.

PNotes Portable isn't done yet, so it probably won't make it.

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Lite Version: since you are

Lite Version: since you are removing OOoP and swapping in AbiWord, maybe you could also swap in tanisthalon's GNUmericPortable, or create your own GNUmericPortable.

Standard: add MinesPerfect, KeePass and Sumatra.

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John T. Haller
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Spreadsheet

The funny thing is, there's a good chunk of people who don't use a spreadsheet. And Gnumeric, even portablized, is pretty damned big.

And I keep forgetting to email tanisthalon...

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tanisthalon
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On the mention of Gnumeric

Agreed on Gnumeric, although it has some good points. The English d/l is approx. 20mb installed whereas the multi-language d/l is approx. 55mb installed.
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I would add Sumatra PDF

I would add Sumatra PDF and 7-Zip to both and perhaps VLC to just the full package.

I think there should be an accessible package that includes the onscreen keyboard and magnifying glass.

A Developer's package would be handy too with Notepad++ and Command Prompt.

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7-Zip and VLC / Multiple Packages

I considered 7-Zip, too... but Windows 2000 and up supports Zip files built in... so not everyone will need it. And, the Windows support is fine for most users. (not for us, since we're insane geeks, but for normal users that might zip up a picture to email).

Most folks won't be carrying a bunch of videos, I don't think. Though I am a little torn about this as it would be cool to have a video player bundled.

I'm thinking about holding off on too many packages for now as they'd get a bit redundant and confusing for average users. I like the 3 options myself (big, little and make your own) as they kinda have a universal appeal.

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On 7-Zip..

At my school, they uninstall whatever extracts .zip. So 7-Zip portable is VERY useful to me. Especially since a lot of sites put PDFs and other files in .zip files.

This might just be my school though. They are afraid of technology.

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How about

Adding Notepad++ to the light version instead of Abiword Wink
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Documents

Most users really need a word processor... not a text editor.

Unless you're pulling my leg Blum

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Nah

I wasn't pulling your leg Wink but if you wanted to you could wipe up a developers edition of the suite and technically still be small in size too
Just my 2 cents worth there
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yes 7-Zip Would Be Great In

yes 7-Zip Would Be Great In One Of Those Versions Wink

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- 512 MB Lexar Jump Drive

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My cents

I don't know how much mine are worth :(. I don't think you should put in Cmd or Keyboard Portable on the Light version. Most people just don't use them. You could probably keep them in the major install though. Also I don't think you need Sunbird in the Light just put the extension in ThunderBird. It becomes the same thing and saves precious space. However Virtual Magnifying Glass I think should be included in both versions because it's great for the people that can't see very well. Or for the people like me who use it's graphic options for well creating graphics. I would say keep the media player out, as well as Keepass. I used it for a while but found it easier just to store my password's inside Firefox with a master. People will download Keepass if they want it. I agree with keeping Notepad++ out as well. Most people won't use it and might not know how to get rid of it. I think though you should include 7-zip though in the Light version though, very handy program. It would be good to add Mines-Perfect it's light and fun! But a lot of people will probably also like Toucan; it's light and powerful.

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2 cents count

Everybody's 2 cents count...

I can't include Lightning within Thunderbird due to licensing restrictions. The same reason the Thunderbird with Enigmail and GPG package went away (though it's pretty easy to setup with the add on)

I'll consider the magnifying glass... as that does have more universal appeal than a keyboard does... good point...

KeePass I kind of have my heart set on including... unless someone can convnice me otherwise.

7-Zip isn't needed by most people as Zip support has been in Windows since 2000 and that's all most folks need.

Toucan is only intended for advanced users, so it won't be in the suite. The backup tool in the suite id designed to be dead easy and good enough for the average user's needs. A similarly simple sync tool is in the works, too.

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Okay

I didn't mention that I agree Sumatra PDF is a must. And about the Sunbird thing. Maybe you should just leave Sunbird out and then people can choose if they want Sunbird or the extension. If you have your heart set on Keepass then I say do it. I will also concied on 7-zip. Now that I think about it, it took me a while to learn how to use it. I like the Simple sync thing though, what's the name of the program? Or will it be one of your making? I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but John if you're adding all of these wonderful features (We like that!) you might need to create a help manual. Yes I know more work. I create a .txt help file (or whatever) if you wanted one to explain the removing of apps and stuff (you said people might not know how to do that) and any other stuff you wanted. Don't let us tire you out too much.
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John T. Haller
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Sunbird / Help file

I think Sunbird is still an important one to have in there, and it's not too big. I'll let size dictate the decision on whether it's in the light package or not.

The sync will be similar to PortableApps.com Backup and have a similar wizard-style few click interface.

There will be info on removing apps on the website here for now. The next release will have a built in "remove an app" option. The goal is to keep it as simple and logical as possible so that it just works for people.

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Sounds good.

Do you think it would be possible to integrate email with P.A. I know there's TB, but it's a little heavy for my purposes. Something a little lighter integrated within the menu might be nice. Just a minor thought though :wink:. Will the remove app button just remove it from the menu or will it actually delete it?
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John T. Haller
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Nope / Yup

The point of the platform is to provide the base for apps to run on. Adding things like email to it would be a bit straying from the purpose. There will be extensions later on, though, so you can have things like a new email notifier.

The remove app will actually delete it (it will say so, of course).

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arqbrulo
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Virtual Magnifying glass

Maybe an option of the visual impaired? Are there other apps for the visual / hearing impaired?
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Agree

/me seconds arqbrulo... a version for visual impaired, then base, light, advanced and visual impaired... Biggrin

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NVDA

NVDA is a pretty good and portable screen reader. This, along with Virtual Magnifying Glass, would be great for a Blind & Visually Impaired version of Portable Apps.

http://www.nvda-project.org/

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Wow

It's kinda buggy for me. The original synthesized and default settings annoys the hell outta me.

It wouldn't let me type a bunch of letters while running, I had to close it to type this.

Edit: It's still not letting me type half the time, but it is better with a bit of configuration.

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My cents...

I vote for including Sumatra and maybe Keepass to both Standard and Lite.
Sumatra is small and very handy. Keepass is bigger but still handy.
I would also like PokerTH but it IS pretty big so probably not.
7Zip and VLC aren't necessary. Win 2k/xp have sufficient zip support for Joe Average (like stated before) and Vlc is big and slow.
Eraser/Win md5 are small and I would like them but maybe they are too geeky Wink
And I think its good to remove Gaim but clearly say it so nobody comes here and asks questions about "the menu is deleting my Apps!!!".
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Eraser / Winmd5 - yeah

Eraser / Winmd5 - yeah they're too geeky. PokerTH is good, but not sure if worth adding. Sumatra, I was about to say "no thanks", buy yeah, lets do it. Keepass, not too geeky?
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"Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river." -- Cyril Connolly

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I'll strongly vote for KeePass since you're on the fence

Geeky or not, password management is becoming a problem for everyone (how many web sites do you log into in a given week).

Including this will encourage people to try it out who otherwise might be writing passwords on yellow sticky paper or choosing crappy easy to remember (and crack) passwords.

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A simple solution

Never forget a single one of your passwords. Barring brain-scanning gadgetimicons, the chances of a password crack comes out to somewhere between nil and nothing. Works for me (TM).

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Tuppence

"since lots of users won't know how to remove an app yet"
"Press this button [Del]. Press [Enter] to confirm."

Well, a good idea would be to import from .gaim/ to .purple/, true. Average John Doe won't know this much.

What do you want for Light? I hope you're not going for the Diet Soda -- less sugar (file size), but not much healthier. I'd prefer stripped essentials.

Anyway, folks, here is the list:
- Mozilla Firefox
- KeePass
- Mozilla Sunbird: I don't use it, but I guess many do.
- 7-Zip - Full only: Windows handles ZIP archives natively, and other formats are less common, especially for John Windows Doe. 7-Zip also only unarchives a small part of the rich RAR format.
- Mozilla Thunderbird - Full only: I see some complain it is quite big.
- ClamWin - Full only: Computers should use a pre-installed, real-time security system, including antivirus and firewall.
- Pidgin - Full only: Shame on you for chatting at work. Not everyone needs this.
- All games - Full only, if at all: See the notes on Pidgin.
- OpenOffice.org - Full only: Bigger than yo momma.
- AbiWord - Light replacement for OO.o.
- FileZilla and PuTTY - Full only: Not everyone needs advanced network tools.

Exclusions:
- Sumatra PDF: Still quite buggy (inexplicable-crash-sort of buggy) and lacking in useful features. Not our fault, but it won't make for a nice impression. Wait for version 1.
- Accessibility tools: Windows provides a basic magnifier and screen keyboard already. Most people also have fair eyesight and use real keyboards.
- VLC Player: I don't know about you, but I haven't needed it in months.

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Damn

Jafet has made one of the most self-righteous posts I have seen in a long time. Kind of funny though in a sense.

Your "Full Only", "You shouldn't be using this at work" blah blah blah is very short minded. I work from home, for myself and I don't even run these applications from a thumb drive. The reason some of us here use these applications are as follows:

1. Keep our registry tidy.
2. Not having to install a ton of software on your pc after a format. (takes up a lot of time initially not including configuring it.)
3. Much easier to update these releases than official versions usually.
4. Support, here you will find more support than one could ask for if you need it.
5. Knowing where everything is, where it writes to and how to find it.
6. This is open source, free and lacks spyware/adware/viri/trojans.

If you don't like it don't use it. You aren't paying for it and no one is holding a dead trout(IRC humor) to your head forcing you to use it.

I would like to see 4 Suites... Lite, Medium, Heavy, and Complete.

Divide the applications up anyway you want, but to be able and get all of the released PA Applications in 1 package just seems nice to me. I don't really mind downloading every individual package, it's just time consuming and you have to pay more attention to what you are doing.

I personally have every released application on this site running off my pc. Close to 90% of the beta applications for testing. I fully support what John and all the moderators and developers are doing here. If someone is using all this for something other than getting their work done, that is their or their employers problem. A network administrator should have enough intelligence to close down chatting ports, watch for proxy usage and stop whatever they don't what happening. Minus the games of course.

Oh and there will be many more games coming soon Wink
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Here's my list...

Here's my list for the standard package:

* ClamWin Portable (antivirus)
* Mozilla Firefox - Portable Edition (web browser)
* Pidgen Portable (instant messaging)
* OpenOffice.org Portable (office suite)
* Mozilla Sunbird - Portable Edition (calendar/task manager)
* Mozilla Thunderbird - Portable Edition (email client)
* KeePass Portable - (password manager)
* Mines Perfect - (minefield game)

I would delete the Sudoku game as it is not very good and replace it with the Mines Perfect game. KeePass is a strong addition. Sumatra PDF still is a bit buggy. Eraser Portable might also be a nice addition but could be a problem with newbie users.

-IP

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"Developer Edition"

Any plans for a "Developer Edition" for well the you guys (why not make your lives a little easier and benefit from your own creations) and the wider developer community. Why not put a package together woth all those nice wee apps like Notepad++ (or Scite if it ever goes to full release ;)), Nvu/KompoZer, Command Prompt, GIMP, Vitual Magnifying Glass, Audacity, Firefox, PNotes (great app), Pencil Portable, InfraRecorder, VirtualDub, basically all the apps that help in creating software, music, videos etc.
Thought that would be a nifty idea!
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Ultra

That will be the Ultra Edition. It'll be the whole she-band (one app of each type... the more popular / better one). It won't be updated as often as the main suite types, but it will be a popular one to bundle with magazines n stuff.

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My 2 cents, and a info

First, Window$ 2000 does not support ZIP files, only XP and up (if there is support for ZIP in Win2k, please tell me how to turn it on).

- Second, I think the ideal would be:

Firefox Portable - A Must Have;

Thunderbird Portable - Also a must have;

Sunbird Portable - It's practical;

7-Zip Portable - Foe NON XP/Server 2003/Vista Window$ (and Window$ XP/Server 2003/Vista that have ZIP support deactivated for freeing up system resources);

MPlayer Portable - It's practical, and it could be used with Fx Portable as a plug-in;

Pidgin Portable - For chatting;

ClamWin Portable - Duh!!! :D;

OpenOffice Portable - Yes, for editing documents;

The C.A.F.E. Mod Portable available on this forum - already set up ;);

Sumatra PDF Portable - Needed by most people;

KeePass Portable - For passwords;

Those games you said;

A lightweight explorer made by you, John T. Haller (not those ExplorerXP and Explorer2);

A lightweight image viewer.

- And the light version of PAM:

Firefox Portable;

Thunderbird Portable;

Abiword and Gnumeric Portable - The Gnome Office for Window$;

Pidgin Portable;

ClamWin Portable;

KeePass Portable;

And, Ok, a lightweight game (Mines-Perfect Portable).

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Zip support

Hmmm... you're right. It isn't supported on Win2K. I always thought it was. Hadn't played with it in a while. Still not sure I want 7-Zip in the Suite, though, as it's a bit hard for non-geeks to use (Open, Open Inside, Open Outside... could that be any weirder?)

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ULTIMATE VERSION!

There should be an Ultimate Version (or some similar name) which has all the apps!
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Look up

It'll be called Ultra Edition Blum

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SHWEET!!!

Thanks John. Smile
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Also

I liked the Ultra Edition idea, so here is my suggestion for it (as it going to be mostly for developers):

All the apps I suggested for the Normal Edition;
Notepad ++ Portable;
NVU Portable;
XAAMP Portable (I don't use it, but...);
FileZilla Portable;
Putty Portable; (At this point, this is getting prety big)
Command Prompt Portable;
Eraser Portable.

But lets remove something:

The games;
And the lightweight image viewer and explorer.

Pretty big huh? Biggrin

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I agree KeepPass is needed.

I agree KeepPass is needed. I actually introduced a friend to the program and he started using it and likes it. I, on the other hand, didn't heed my own advice and have since forgotten at least 3 different passwords I had to get reset (I have WAY to many passwords I need to know for work).

I download apps individually as I find a need for them so I'll abstain from voting on the rest of the apps.

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Some calculations

I did some quick size calculations on what the downloads and install sizes would be based on our current discussion. They're in the main post now.

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My 27 Cents.

I like what you got up there right now.

(as in the top of this post)

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I like the current list

I like the standard lists, the way they are is probably the way to go.

It's not overly complicated, even for non-techs to add additional apps as they need them, especially since there's generic install instructions on all of the app pages.

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.

Hmpf. I don't see any of my apps mentioned Biggrin

Anyway, what about RSSOwl? News feeds are getting more and more popular all the time.
And, for the intilectuls, maybe WinBoard Portable? SuperTux or R'n'D are good too.

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Reasons

1. RSSOwl requires Java, which is not a part of the PortableApps.com Suite

2. The others are all too big to justify game-wise. Sudoku and Mines-Perfect are both included because they're tiny (400k and 790k installed) and a quick reminder that games are a part of being portable. Winboard is 8.5MB. RnD is 6MB. SuperTux is 14MB. They would be candidates for the Ultra edition, though.

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SuperTux!

And then, I found Wormux,

www.wormux.org

It's massive, but a fantastic program. Biggrin

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and

is not portable... yet...

BTW, how do you change weapons??? Wink

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Well,

If I bothered to UPX them, it would be smaller Biggrin
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then

do it... I use rssowl among others of yours...

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If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report Biggrin

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
and the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report Biggrin

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I too like

the list you have up now (August 8, 2007 - 5:24am) but I think "Ultra" should have a bit more. It should either have one of each section/szb-menu or all available Apps in one package.
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It will

It's a work in progress. That's why all the numbers are blank.

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Deux centimes

1st: I'm assuming that the new version of the suite will include the next rev of PAM??
2nd: I'm not sure how much value is in having more than 3 optional suites.
I only tried DLing the suite once, and not only was it a very large DL, it took quite a long time to install.
I prefer starting with the Platform and picking the apps I want.
When I recommend this site to my friends, I suggest they start with at most the Lite version, and then to add the "DownloadThemAll" extension to Firefox, which really speeds up all downloads, and then finally to add any other apps they like.

The table above is quite useful, and it gave me another idea:
Why not organize apps in "Collections" targeted to different users? I'm NOT saying to bundle them into single packages, but instead to list them with their individual sizes, and total collection size?

Here's an example...
You would have an "Artist" collection, that would be a page listing all the creative apps, such as the GIMP, Audacity, VirtualDub, etc. with file sizes, and links to the individual apps.

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Or even better...

Could you have a page to "build your own collection"?
This would resemble the current "Applications" page, with the addition of:
- Installed sizes
- Check boxes
- A "customize" button

The user would check the boxes next to their apps, and then click the "Customize" button, which would display a page showing the selected apps (each with a DL link), the sizes, and the total installed size of all the apps.

The user would then either download the apps one at a time, or discard the page and try again.

I'm not sure how to code it, but I have seen some similar "selection" functions on other sites...

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I second this idea!

I don't use all the apps in the light version anyway, so what I did, when PAM first came out, was download my apps one by one and add them to the base version. Doing this is very annoying, so a "Custom Portable Apps Platform" would be great if it could be created.

Prehaps through a launcher that downloads and installs the apps you want after installing Portable Apps Platform. (It would be easier than writing a new page for the site that does this.)
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Agreed

but also there should be a checklist type list on the site that shows all the applications. Sort of a chart like:

| Want? | Name of App | Size | etc. |
| Box | FireFox | 7 MB | etc. |
| Box | ClamWin | 7 MB | etc. |
| Box | NotePad | 7 MB | etc. |
| Box | ThunderBird | 7 MB | etc. |

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My vote

Ultra version:

FFPE
TBPE
KeePass
ClamWin
OpenOffice
AbiWord
Soduku
PokerTH
Mines-Perfect
SumatraPDF
Gimp
VLC Media Player
Pidgin
Sunbird
7zip

Not sure what those totals would be.

I think you would expect the Ultra or Ultimate edition to be available for those who have 2Gb or larger drives. There are quite a few people out therewho have large drives and use they religiously that have very little knowledge about programing or coding.

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Just a suggestion

Just a suggestion John in your installer use upx Wink
Just include this in your script and it will compress your paf installer much more and it will still be usable. Just make sure you have upx at the bas of your script or it won't work. I mean it will still compile but Just not upx compressed
;----UPX Compression----
!define HAVE_UPX

!ifdef HAVE_UPX
!packhdr tmpexe.tmp "UPX --lzma --best -q --compress-icons=0 tmpexe.tmp"
!endif
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Not much

Yeah, I know about that, but there are issues. It only decreases the size a little bit (Firefox Portable's goes from 143k to 133k) but it increases the chance of an antivirus flagging it as a false positive.

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Well

Well I meant really just for the installer
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Nope

UPX can only compress the header (the bits that do the actually installation... the NSIS code). It won't make an installer smaller.

You can make an installer smaller by incorporating 7-zip into it (Firefox is packed this way) but it has to extract the whole installer to the temp directory on the local PC in the process... something we don't want to to with 250MB of files in the Suite.

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This Is What I Think Should

This Is What I Think Should Be In The Fallowing Packages

Light Package -
Firefox Portable
7-Zip Portable
Miranda IM Portable

8.4 Not Installed
28.7 Mb Installed

Standard Package -
Firefox Portable
Thunderbird Portable
PokerTH Portable
KeePass Portable

19.5 MB Not Installed
58.5 MB Installed

Recommended: 256 MB Drive.

Ultra Package -
Firefox Portable
Thunderbird Portable
AbiWord Portable
VLC Media Player
Gimp Portable

40.5 MB Not Installed
119.20 MB Installed

Recommended: 512 MB And Up

=====================================
- U3 1GB Flash Drive (U3 Removed :P)
- 512 MB Lexar Jump Drive

Na na na, come on!

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Widows 2000 does not have a built in zip

Hello Group;

I noticed that 7-zip may not be included. I use Windows 2000 Pro and it does not have a built in zip file. Other MS OS's might but Win 2000 Pro does not.

Frank D. Hubeny

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Discussed

This was discussed above. 7-Zip is very handy... but average users don't usually use Zip files. And 7-Zip's interface is not quite where it should be (Open, Open Inside, Open Outside, for instance). Basically, if you can handle adding an app yourself, you can probably figure out 7-Zip. If you can't, you can't, and it's better not to expose newbies to it.

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Right

You are right about the Gui. I only brought it up because some posts say that Windows 2000 has built in zip support. I use it and it does not have any such built in support.

It is however avaliable for download from this site as a person so chooses.

I personally like the suggestions at the beginning of the topic. I do like a small basic set af apps. The ones you choose are a good start. Perhaps you should remove the Ultra. It seems to have added only Abiword if I read it right. Or make Ultra a collection of everything. This how ever would limit the users to large USB Drives and may not be desireable.

The idea of limiting the intial size for people who can not afford a large USB drive is a real good idea. It should allow for more users to try it out.

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Look up again

As discussed, ultra will include at least one app of each type. The table is marked work in progress and the numbers for ultra are all blank.

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This is portableapps.com not

This is portableapps.com not tumbdrive.com or usbstick.com. As said many times by many users, a lot of people use these on their home machine or even from very large external drives. Which is why I think having a few suite options are essential.

(On that note, I'm thinking of having the installer remove Gaim as it installs - only if it successfully imports the settings - since lots of users won't know how to remove an app yet... thoughts?)

Excellent idea. Probably save a lot of hassle.
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John,

did you do something to this thread so it can become sooooo long and doesn't split into 2 pages?
I hate the 2 pages cause the "new post" marks dont work (as discussed before).
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90 comments

I upped the comments per page to 90 as an experiment.

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It takes

slightly longer to load but I REALLY like it!
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I was.

Wondering how this and the platform page went back to one page, thanks.

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Good choice. Please leave it

Good choice. Please leave it that way. The page breaks were a pain.
-IP

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My 53 cents (I'm just too cool :)

I think that you should go with everything you already have down, but add Toucan to the Light, Standard, and Ultra, and add Winboard Portable to the Standard and Ultra.

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Nope / Too Big

As stated earlier in the page, Toucan is intended for advanced users only, whereas the Suite is designed so even average users have no problem with it (hence the simple to use backup utility included). And the only reason Sudoku and Mines-Perfect are included is because they are tiny. All the other games are too big for the Suite.

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Well, do you plan on putting

Well, do you plan on putting Toucan in the Ultra Suite?

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Toucan for encryption.

Toucan for encryption.

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Ultra Version

The Ultra Version should have a project style application to go with the open office suite. I myself work in an office as a Project Engineer (design pos/pop displays, draw 2d/3d models along with production drawings, bills of materials, source suppliers etc, manage most of the company projects from start to finish and the odd sales work here and there). So I use open office and planner quite a lot when I am not actually in the office. When at work I have the unfortunate use of microsoft office/project.
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Ultra Version Thoughts

On the Ultra Version, here's a few thoughts...

1) Don't bother including AbiWord when you're installing Open Office. AbiWord is OK for the smaller packages, but it can confuse others when you have both Open Office Write & AbiWord on the same drive.

2) Include VLC for media player... No offense to MPlayer, but VLC is pretty solid & can support every media format I throw at it (WMA, WMV, MP3, MP4, OGG, MOV, NSV). It does, however, take about 30 seconds for the video stream to kick in for NSV format.

3) Load it up with the games. C'mon! Who doesn't like anti-productivity software, especially when the network goes down?

4) Add GIMP & 7-Zip. It's surprising how many times I've needed to use them away from home. There's been a few times where I had to make a few minor tweaks to an image OR confront a compressed file in an attachment.

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I got an idea for a light-weight e-mail client.

It is called Claws-Mail it runs on many OSes, it is light-weight,fast,powerful (very configurable),responisve and it has a Thunderbird-like interface.

It is found here: http://www.claws-mail.org/

It is licensed under the GPL.

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Can I add some pennies? Will you accept Visa?

I believe probably a very good approach would be something quite similar to an idea suggested above: Don't do suites, do collections.
However, I foresee it without all that web programming hassle:

First there is the most stripped down suite you can possibly build.
Then there are many "collections" or "packages" or "bundles" (perhaps with some overlays). Some examples:

Security: Putty, KeePass, Toucan, PAM Backup (if left out of the basic)
NetAdmin: Putty, KeePass, VNC
Games: Sudoku, Mines Perfect, etc.
Multimedia: MPlayer, VLC...
Entertainment: Games + Multimedia
Communications: Thunderbird, Firebird, Pidgin
IM: Pidgin, Miranda
Accesibility: Keyboard, Magnifying Glass
Dev: NSIS, Notepad++

That way, each one can download, in just a few "bundles" something quite close to their ideal cocktail of apps.

The nice part is that you could still have a "light" and an "ultra" bundle, but bundles wouldn't be mutually exclusive. i.e: I can get the Basic Suite + the "light" bundle + the games one with no conflict and without having to download all the games left out of the light bundle one by one. And perhaps then add only KeePass, not the whole security bundle...

Of course, an utmost important part of this is that the bundles should be really easy to install. At most, as difficult as installing one app.

There would be some duplication in hosting space, but probably little duplication in bandwidth. And it would become a lot less critical to get it right with suites that can't (easily/apparently) be installed together or that don't cover the whole spectrum of user needs.

And as time goes by, you could make a ranking of the most downloaded bundles, and drop the least downloaded (This doesn't necessarily mean drop any apps. Just stop providing them bundled in one same package) and create new bundles that would seem useful.

Just my 3 1/2 p. (I wasn't going to pick a round number, right?)

John T. Haller
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Too much work / Too Confusing

The problem with that much choice... is that the end user is left having no idea what to do. Not to mention the fact that you wind up having to update lots of different bundles when certain apps are updated.

We can recommend certain apps for certain situations, but I think bundles of apps will get way to complex from both an end-user perspective and a package maintainer perspective.

The platform (Menu, Backup, Icons, Folders, Autorun, etc) is the main base of all the downloads. The suites are meant to serve as a simple "getting started" download for new users. They also serve as ideal targets to bundle with magazines, etc. Having 12 different packages wouldn't really add to either scenario. Recommending apps in certain categories (which is coming) is a nice complement, but would be too much in terms of downloadables.

Sometimes, the impossible can become possible, if you're awesome!

Wences
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Yes, you're probably right

Yes, you're probably right with the maintainance thing and the magazines. The part about confusing the user is probably much more a matter of how you explain it, than what you do...
But well, if you feel more confortable with the suites... after all I'm a satisfied customer of them Smile

OliverK
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Hey-

I like the bundle ideas.

How about (as you mentioned it becomes quite a chore) just have pages that have links to the programs suggested for each bundle?

Like:
Developement
it is suggested that you download
this
this
and this
and maybe that

Eh?

There are 10 types of people in the world.

Those who understand Binary
and Those who don't

Too many lonely hearts in the real world
Too many bridges you can burn
Too many tables you can't turn
Don't wanna live my life in the real world

k776
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My suggestions on what to include

First off, Light != Lite. So don't change the name Blum Call it Slim, or something if you do want a name change. PA Slim ^_^

Secondly, this is what I think should be included. It balances functionality, but ease of download (for those of us with slow connections). During writing this I made several changes in fact, so I'm hoping I got a perfect balance, and am strongly urging you to consider this arrangement, say you choose the line up yourself if it will help you use this lineup, I don't care :P).

Thirdly, I suggest making 5 versions for download! It will mean much more flexibility for people who want to use your application.

Platform
----------------
Menu
Backup
Folders & Icons

Slim
----------------
Everything Platform has plus:
Firefox
Thunderbird
Clamwin
Notepad++
Sudoku

Standard
----------------
Everything Slim has plus:
Pidgin
Sumatra PDF
AbiWord
Mines-Perfect
7-Zip

Delux
----------------
Everything Standard has plus:
VLC Media Player
GIMP
Sunbird

Ultra
----------------
Everything Delux has plus:
OpenOffice
Toucan

The ultimate goal obviously would be to be able to generate exe setups on the fly when a user selects what they want. This would mean versions could be made up to date all the time (gaim, and old 1.5 thunderbird in the latest suite Shock I wish I saved myself the bandwidth if I'd known I would have to re-download the new versions :P) and people could select what they want without need for this package debate Wink

But I suppose thats a little complex for now ^_^

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